Last night during chat I finished an excel sheet I had been working on which compiles the appearances of the gods in the Religion entries for each nation in the LGG. It's not definitive data by any means but I still think it's kind of interesting. So the totals are just how many nations each god, groups of gods, or faith is worshiped in. I didn't include the gods of occupying powers because I'm doing this mainly for my own campaign, which takes place before the war, but adding them in doesn't significantly change the numbers anyway. The (2) after Telchur's total indicates where he gets mentioned by himself. His total was the sum of where the Velaeri (which he is a member of) are worshiped plus 2. The (1) after Sehanine just indicates she gets a special mention in one of the nations where she is included with the Seldarine. Make what you will of it.
I have to say that I have never cared for the distribution, however, as I found it a bit much in places. Zilchus appears way, way to much etc. In too many cases there is no obvious link between a god and his or her worship in a particular area etc. _________________ GVD
Thanks Glenn! Well if I can't write an article a day like you do I might as well find some way to make myself useful.
As for Zilchus I assume he is so widespread due to the fairly stable environment for trade. His only real competition in the non-Baklunish Flanaess is Xerbo. Plus his church held the censoriate for quite some time, which probably can't hurt. Norebo is the real mystery to me unless I guess it's just that everyone loves to gamble, duh!
If anyone wants a copy of the excel file PM me and I can email it to you.
I agree, very interesting stuff. I'm glad you did this list.
From my POV as a DM, this is a useful kick off point because as I design non combat content, I try to think from a street level perspective. But, as far as GH gods are concerned, that's a tough task. Probably like many GH DM's, I see an overwhelming mass of gods, and I think, yeah fine, it's an extremely polytheistic world (from a quick count of smillan's list, there's more than seventy!), but then I kinda punt, for sanity's sake. There's the temples of X gods in Y city, and they're all kind of all vanilla, because I'm running out of time and ideas, and I have to call it a day design-wise.
I've not considered GH gods in terms of, for lack of a better articulated concept, a man on the street appreciation of who's hot and who's not, but that feels like something to mull upon further. I'd even consider extending the concept of "hot gods" to lands where they aren't majority worshipped. Within that context, I imagine Norebo is "hot". Extending the concept into a half-witted example, let's say a Furyondian commoner bets a few silver on a game of chance. While Norebo isn't a god revered in that land, it's perhaps not such a stretch to imagine that he invokes the name of that Suel god for luck as the wheel spins, not because he worships Norebo, but because, hey, everyone knows who Norebo is, and luck needs to be a lady tonight. That's not to say there's a temple to Norebo in Chendl; following this line of thinking, there doesn't need to be one.
The other reason I like this list is because I tend to fall into the utter black hole of "greater-intermediate-lesser power ranking as a measure of a god's relative influence amongst the mortals". If they never published god stats, I'd be perfectly happy. A god's power rank, from my POV, should be meaningless from the street level perspective. Not only that, but my players will never have to fight it (with maybe one or two exceptions that I really can't imagine will ever happen anyway), so, what I'm left with is its social power. It's interesting that the top 4 gods on smillan's list are "intermediates", till you get to Beory. Someone correct me if I've counted wrong. I've been worshipping over at the temple of St Remy's this evening
GVD brings up an interesting case, that of Zilchus. As for me, I do think Z is worthy of that level of representation. While I have absolutely no idea how Mona Smedger and crew arrived at their conclusions on predominant worship of dieties amongst societies in the LGG, it's easy for me to imagine that within those 18 nationalities, Zilchus' worship is significant -- not overwhelming, mind you -- but a significant enough player to merit inclusion on that list, given that Z, as the Oeridian god of trade & politics, and trade being a huge deal in all human lands, and I haven't counted, but I'll bet those 18 fall within the former Aerdian sphere of influence, which was enhanced by the wide-ranging power of the Royal Guild of Merchants of Aerdy, and mindful that the Great Kingdom was a darn near Flanaess spanning superpower at its near height as recently as 300 years prior to current start dates, and regardless of which lunatic sat on the Malachite Throne in later years, countless ships would set sail from Relmor Bay, caravan after caravan would move along dirawein into Nyrond and Almor and points west, and money and influence would rule the day, as it always does.
There was a little rhyme a dissolute gaming buddy would sing when playing his cleric, in a simpler era, which lives now only in my memory: "My god is red hot, your god ain't doodly-squat"
Great work Smillan! I knew Zilchus would be up there. Where Zilchus has an edge over Norebo is that he is the state/favored religion of the highly populous (and oeridian) Ahlissa and the large metropolitan Dyvers (almost 4 million ppl combined). For comparison, the nations having strong Suel background and where Norebo is found; Sea Barons, Frost, Ice and Snow Barbarians, Lendore Isles, Lordship of the Isles, Sea Princes, Ratik, Keoland, Yeomanry, Cty Urnst and Prn Ulek-have a combined population of almost 5 million. Norebo isn't the state religion in any of them so his cut of the worship pie must be average to low. What's all that mean? I dunno, but it is interesting how the authors of the LGG made Ahlissa a Zilchan nation after the wars.
Just to throw this out, I am also amused Nyrond (state religion Heironeous) and North Kingdom of Aerdy (state religion Hextor) both have a population of 2.618 million. Talk about evenly matched deities!
The also have to take into account the personas of Norebo and Zilchus for the ruling class. Zilchus while slightly ruthless is more stable and dignified. While Norebo has the "rogue" quality and take a chance. It is no wonder the stability and status minded elite chose zilchus.
IIRC Mort; The exact stats for Nyrond and Northern Aerdy is a misprint. I read a post where Erik Mona claimed one was suppose to be around 2.9.
I can't remember where I read this but I am sure I did.
Norebo isn't the state religion in any of them so his cut of the worship pie must be average to low.
Yeah, he does best among the barbarians and in the Band Kingdoms. In Keoland he is 11 out of 14 (only slightly more reputable than Olidammara), and in Greyhawk he is 4 out of 6 between St. Cuthbert and Fharlanghn. He does decently in Ratik, but there's that barbarian influence again. Everywhere else he's pretty far down the list, except for the Sea Barons, but they have a really weird list of gods with Syrul, Kurell, Nerull and Ralishaz bringing up the rear. They must be some bitter, messed-up island folk.
mortellan wrote:
What's all that mean? I dunno, but it is interesting how the authors of the LGG made Ahlissa a Zilchan nation after the wars.
I see it as a rejection of Ivid and the Naelex (oeridian-flan northerners) along with their god, Hextor by the Darmen, who as well as being a house traditionally tied to mercantilism and thus, Zilchus, are also southerners (oeridian-suloise). There has to be cultural as well as religious conflict between the two.
-I did something like this for Keoland (about a year ago), trying to determine shrines/chapels/temples randomly...
smillan_31 wrote:
...As for Zilchus I assume he is so widespread due to the fairly stable environment for trade. His only real competition in the non-Baklunish Flanaess is Xerbo...
-Agreed, and he is an intermediate level god (c. 591, formerly greater 579)
smillan_31 wrote:
...Norebo is the real mystery to me unless I guess it's just that everyone loves to gamble, duh!
-Considering that he's a lesser god, the devotion is probably a kilometer wide and a millimeter deep.
Norebo would equate with various Gods of chance -- such as Hermes, to a degree -- which were always popular. Zilchus and Fharlanghn also closely equate with "our" Hermes, who had dominion over trade and travel as well.
Hermes was not considered to be as important as other Deities among the Olympians -- no major temples were dedicated to him, not to the same degree as others -- but he was called upon, at various times, by everyone; with shrines everywhere. _________________ Mystic's web page: http://melkot.com/mysticscholar/index.html
Mystic's blog page: http://mysticscholar.blogspot.com/
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This is interesting and useful.
