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Iuz in 4e
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Dndungeoneer
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Joined: Jul 01, 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I understand. Maybe I'm taking that classification too seriously by inserting it into 4E terms.
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rasgon
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In second and third editions, devils and demons are both types of fiends, which was a general term for evil supernatural beings from other planes. Has this changed?

I don't think "fiend" had a specific definition in 1st edition, although the pit fiend was (and remains) a kind of devil.
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Dndungeoneer
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a quick glance through MM1 and MM2 I reread the entries on Demons and Devils. No Fiend entries in these two books.

Basically 4E, at least as far as Points of Light is concerned, regards Demons as evil entities that care for nothing but destruction and will let themselves be destroyed in order to cause more destruction; as they are reborn in the Abyss and will continue their rampage again.

Devils are the other hand are more insidious, often working with evil gods and mortals to bring about the capture of more souls for the Abyss. Devils in 4E seem to be all about getting more and more souls for the Abyss. Often going after the followers of Good gods ect.

That's why I was seperating the them all into different "categories" as WotC has done so in 4E.
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rasgon
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4th edition demons sometimes tempt and capture mortal souls, too - for example, the quasit in Monster Manual 3.

I aware that 4th edition has strived to make demons and devils more different from one another than they were in earlier editions, but I assume that if "fiend" means anything in 4th edition, it still means both demons and devils.

Iuz is a cambion. In 4th edition, cambions are presented as half-devils, but Iuz is the son of Graz'zt.
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andurion
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rasgon wrote:
Iuz is a cambion. In 4th edition, cambions are presented as half-devils, but Iuz is the son of Graz'zt.

Even though Graz'zt in 4e is now a demon, I like to think that he still has enough devil mojo to sire a cambion. Smile
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PaulN6
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graz'zt has been retconned as a former devil who was corrupted by the Abyss to become a demon. Article on WotC today has now retconned incubi to be the corrupted (formerly devilish, now demonic) succubi that occupy his court.
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AtomicPope
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iuz should be a Solo.

Reason? The semi-legendary Carl Sergeant wrote in one of his Iuz supplements (I think "Iuz the Evil" but as it's in storage I cannot check): don't allow Iuz to be killed too quickly or easily. He is the primary face of evil on Oerth. If he dies then Greyhawk loses its villian. (Paraphrased).

When I read this ages ago I felt he was on to something. In fact, thinking about villians in this manner changed the way I think about campaigns and stories in general. But that's for another thread I suppose. To make the point more clearly - Iuz shouldn't be an Elite simply because as a villian he's too important to the setting itself to be anything short of a final goal in a campaign.

When making Iuz I'd make him a Solo that can change forms from an Old Man to a giant, beastly Cambion. Read MM3 entry for Lolth to get a good understanding on how to make such a monster. As "Iuz the Old" he'd be a Controller who focused on ranged attacks and deception. Once that form is defeated he'd change into a Cambion Brute with a +5 Vicious Fullblade, wading through PCs with a barrage of blade attacks only to strangle the survivor.

Having said this, the Greater Boneheart would be chalk full of Elites for the characters to hunt down. That's the kind of stuff legendary campaigns are made of...
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andurion
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AtomicPope wrote:
Read MM3 entry for Lolth to get a good understanding on how to make such a monster. As "Iuz the Old" he'd be a Controller who focused on ranged attacks and deception. Once that form is defeated he'd change into a Cambion Brute with a +5 Vicious Fullblade, wading through PCs with a barrage of blade attacks only to strangle the survivor.

Yeah, Lolth is the perfect example of the staged encounter I proposed but was not inspired enough to write-up. :)
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PaulN6
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iuz has a soul object, which was intended to keep him alive in 1e even if pesky adventurers 'killed' him. No reason why that can't be used in 4e to frustrate the players even if he is elite. However, I also think his twin forms would make a great two-stage battle as a solo. I'm still not sure what Iuz would be doing without a load of demons and Boneheart members for company though.
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