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    Canonfire :: View topic - Economics of Mining?
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    Economics of Mining?
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    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 18, 2004
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    Fri Jul 02, 2004 3:08 pm  
    Economics of Mining?

    Okay, I've put a small village of 200 on the Yeomanry's southern edge. The primary economy is mixed agriculture and mining (semiprecious stones, copper, and silver).

    I've decided that there's an ore and gemstone factor (buyer) in town, and an adventure involves loads of ore and gems getting hijacked.

    The question is, should I have the ore smelted down in the town, or should the ore get shipped (by boat) somewhere else for smelting? It's important because the players may end up getting involved with some ore or boullion.

    Any shared knowledge would be appreciated.

    Telas
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Dec 07, 2003
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    Fri Jul 02, 2004 5:46 pm  

    At 200 people, it seems like including a smelting operation would turn this into what would later be called a mining camp rather than a true town. What I mean is, if a smelting operation existed here with the mine, I think almost all of the 200 people would be required to run the mine, the smelters and all the support work that goes along with this. The factor you mentioned would be more along the lines of a foreman rather than an independent operator.

    So I fall into the no smelting operation if you want to keep this a village rather than an involved operation.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:06 pm  

    That's what I was thinking. I did some online research; most mining was historically large operations, but I'm trying to keep a low tech community. So they mine the ore, and ship it (by barge) somewhere else for smelting.

    I'll keep it low-tech by keeping the population density low and by assuming the Yeomanry's democratic ideals apply to their business practices (small firms vs. monopolies).

    And ore keeps security easy; you'd have to steal tons of it to make serious money. (And then who would you sell it to?)

    Thanks,

    Telas
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 02, 2004
    Posts: 36
    From: New Orleans, LA

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    Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:20 pm  

    The owners of the mine would probably agree with you about smelting someplace else. But don't forget about the effects of magic on this sort of business. Fireballs lobbed at ore could do interesting things.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:27 pm  

    Thanks, I finally decided to smelt it downriver, somewhere around the Long Pond or maybe even farther. A town of about 200 couldn't really man a furnace gracefully. It's mostly silver and copper, so it's relatively easy to extract (says the ore-ignorant DM).

    For some reason the "detail bug" bit me, and this campaign is coming out pretty darn detailed. Hope the characters appreciate it...

    Maybe I'll publish the whole thing online. Shocked

    Then again, maybe not.

    Telas
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 13, 2002
    Posts: 1077
    From: Orlane, Gran March

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    Fri Aug 20, 2004 5:13 am  
    Other factors

    It looks as if you have made your decision, but i would suggest the following... if fuel is available, then the smelting would be done at the town. In quasi medieval times, transportation is the biggest problem. If you have ore you have a mining camp, unless there is another reason for this to exist.

    If you have ore and fuel for the smelter, then you have a soon to be city and a burgeoning middle class. Remember... it is far easier for peasants to walk to the mine/smelter than it is for teams of horses or mules to pull carts laden with rock. Whatever weighs the most is moved the shortest distance... smetled bars weigh as much, but there is a much larger bang for the buck.

    This equation only changed with the advent of the Steam engine and railroad tracks when ores were sent to a single large smelter centralized among many mines (actually I think the clever Brits built a canal system to accomplish much the same thing in the early 1700's; now that would be an interesting addition to a campaign!).

    Sorry, this is what happens when you work in land use & development.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Fri Aug 20, 2004 5:36 am  

    The town is on a large creek that flows into the River Burn (Yeomanry, southwestern corner), so transport's easy through smaller river barges (similar to the French canal boats).

    The history is that the area is still recovering from a Humanoid incursion about a century ago, which accounts for the sparse population. That, and a monopolistic buyer of ore and raw gems....

    But that's what you get with a degree in Economics. Happy

    Thanks,

    Telas
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 01, 2004
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    From: Nyrond

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    Fri Aug 20, 2004 1:08 pm  
    Pridot, Peridot, Preidot!

    Hello,

    I can be very helpful in this manner. I work in the gemstone industry, from mining, to cutting, to selling the gemstones. The first thing you need to know is that even today, mining facilities all over the world are barbaric. With that being said, you can have a small, but very lucrative operation with just a few people. I would suggest Peridot as a gem of choice to be mined for your adventure.

    Why do I say Peridot? Good question. Happy Peridot is listed as a Type II gemstone, which is what is mined in the Yeomanry. We have consistency Happy Next, like all gemstone rough (not cut, polished and finished faceted stuff) looks like fossilized gravel. So you only need a few folks that know what they are looking for to mine. We have the small population you need Happy Finally, one of the neat things about Peridot is that in the moonlight, is almost glows and shines. Seriously. Today's contemporary mininers will save rough until a full moon and bring it out. If any of it glows, they know it has the potential to be top quality (ahem, I mean museum quality). So now you can give it religous or magical significance. Cool

    It is far easier to mine the ore, save it for a time and then transport a load somewhere that has a secure cutting facility with qualified lapidaries (gemstone cutters). So you don't need to have a cutting facility there at the mine. Medieval gemstones were cut in a shape called cabachon (pronounced Cab-uh-shawn) which is a rounded cut with no hard edges. Take a ball, cut in half and now you have two cabachon cuts. They thought the cut was what kept the energy within the gemstone. So all you have to do is make a camp that mines Peridot rough. Every three months or six months, all the rough is bundled in chests and sent on it's way to the cutting facility. In return, the miners are given pretty much anything they need to survive and a percentage of the sale, based on weight.

    How do they know they aren't getting cheated you ask? Good question again. Happy Simply put, they don't. Shocked Miners mine the rough and sell it to a buyer/vendor for whatever the miners can get for it (very few people, even experinced buyers, know what the true market value of gemstones are. That's why you the customer get burned when you buy a diamond, tanzanite, ruby...etc). The buyer/vendor then takes it to a lapidary and gets it cut and polished. He then tries to sell it on the open market to a retailer. The middleman must sell it to a retailer at a higher price than what he bought it for; he needs to make a profit and living too. The retailer in turn, having very few return customers, rapes the customer with a 300-600% markup. The retailer needs to make a living too. That, boys and girls, is a summary of gemstone buying and selling. Wink

    I Miss the Wild Caost,
    DwarffromNyrond
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:01 pm  
    thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou

    WOW!!

    Master Dwarf, you have blessed me a wealth of information.

    /me bows deeply

    I now have peridot mines in the area, which explains a LOT about the area, the miners, and the economics. This information fits so many different aspects of the campaign that it's simply amazing. I'm not going to get into details in case any players are lurking... "Get your filthy hands off my world, you damn dirty players!!"

    Ahem. Suffice it to say that, in addition to the connections that you noted, there are at least three others that fit near-perfectly. One of them answers a question that's been plaguing me for a week now.

    Frankly, it's pretty much a perfect fit, and leaves me with a plot hook the size of something generally found on Navy aircraft.

    The only questions I have are minor details, such as where peridot is commonly found (sedimentary foothills, I hope?), and what modern cuts does it commonly take?

    At one point in my past lives, I worked for a former diamond wholeseller, and I am still amazed at the profit margins on diamonds from rock to milady's finest. It's almost enough to tempt an economist to quote Marx.

    Master Dwarf of Nyrond, you have ('scuse the pun) 'rocked' my world!

    /me bows again, then rushes off with a pencil.

    Telas

    [/b]
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:34 pm  
    It just gets better...

    Peridot Mystical Properties: Peridot is used to help dreams become a reality.

    More Peridot Lore: Peridot is given as a symbol of fame, dignity, and protection.

    Legend has it that pirates favored peridot to protect them against evil.

    When the peridot was set in gold it also protected the wearer from terrors in the night (like Undead?).

    Peridot is created during volcanic action (like from the Hellfurnaces?).

    The material is recovered after it has weathered out of the basalt, in the gullies and canyons which lead down the sides of the Mesa or it is recovered in place in the basalt. (Perfect for the setting.)

    Thanks again,

    Telas
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 01, 2004
    Posts: 252
    From: Nyrond

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    Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:24 pm  
    Glad to help

    Howdy there,

    I'm glad to be of help. I hope everything goes as well as you want it. Wink

    I miss the Wild Coast,
    DwarffromNyrond

    PS- Peridot accepts all sorts of cuts. Marquis, cabachon, princess, square, oval, round, diamond, quantum, radiant, you name the cut and it takes it. Go to ThaiGem.com or ACN.com if you want examples of colors and cuts of gemstones.
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