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    i cant explain the diference between pholtus and st cuthbert
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    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
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    From: brazil

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    Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:36 am  
    i cant explain the diference between pholtus and st cuthbert

    i have a new player, and he asked me the main diferences betwen those two.

    sure, im ashamed that i cant explain, but its like Taoism: if i try to put that in words, i wont be able to explain :P

    so, i ask how would you describe those two in few words (pleeease, few words).

    thanks in advance
    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
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    From: Little Rock, Arkansas

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    Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:34 pm  

    Pholtus is fire and brimstone evangelical preaching. Pholtus will lead the righteous to an everlasting afterlife of glory!

    Cuthbert is salt of the earth. Common sense evangelism that mortals should zealously dedicate themselves to their profession and family.
    Adept Greytalker

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    Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:37 pm  

    St. Cuthbert has a Sam-Elliot-esque cowboy mustache.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: May 22, 2007
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    From: Batavia, IL

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    Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:59 pm  

    The Theocracy of The Pale has a really cool, Pholtus-inspired Fight Song:
    Unbreakable is the Pale,
    In spirit and nature.
    Created by the persecution of the One True Path,
    Pholtus has lead us here, to the mighty Fatherland.
    Protected by the Brothers to the Supreme Prelate,
    Pholtus' triumph will lead us to glory.
    Be true to the people, as Pholtus has reared us, oh mighty Theocracy of the Pale,
    Fight the oppression of those heathens forced upon us, and our strength of faith will hold us.
    From the Northern Fens to the Southern Woods,
    We are unique, peerless in our beliefs in Pholtus, and protected by the Blinding Light.
    The wisdom of our forefathers,
    Leads us into the future, with glory and eternal protection.
    A bastion of faith in Pholtus,
    His will is that of labor and valorous deeds in his name

    St. Cuthbert (as described by Gary Gygax): brought non-believers around to his point of view with whacks of his cudgel

    Pretty much sums it up, I think.... Happy
    CN -- It makes firing into combat a whole lot more fun
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    From: Niflheim, 9to5

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    Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:28 pm  

    One's Catholic, the other Southern Baptist. Wink
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    From: So. Cal

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    Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:11 am  

    St. Cuthbert appeals more to rural/common folk, and his priests dress in simple garb. While the faith's emphasis might seem to lie there, it does hold considerable temporal influence among the nations of the central Flanaess. Tends more towards authoritarianism.

    Pholtus appeals more to urban, elitist folk. His priests wear pristine white, with importance shown by gilt trim. While the faith is more active in urban areas, missionaries will travel wherever they are required to go. Tends more towards totalitarianism.

    As for proof of the authoritarian Cuthbertines vs. the totalitarian Pholtans, just compare Veluna to The Pale. Yes, I think that sums up things nicely. Happy

    Both faiths are noted for their proselytization, and both have reputations for over zealousness- one may club you for not seeing the common sense in their message, while the other may literally blind you for resisting their message.

    We can leave off with the off-hand real world religious comparisons though.
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    Last edited by Cebrion on Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:05 am; edited 1 time in total
    Adept Greytalker

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    From: brazil

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    Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:48 am  

    thanks guys, great answers!

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
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    From: Michigan

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    Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:13 am  

    To a degree, they're supposed to be a lot alike. Both lawful good with neutral tendencies, both utterly convinced of the rightness of their narrow path, they're fierce rivals because they're more alike than either cares to admit.

    But yes, St. Cuthbert is more of a deity of the common folk, his brand of justice a rough, common sense, bash 'em on the heads when they misbehave approach, while Pholtus places more emphasis on formal education and extensive and sophisticated, difficult-to-grasp theology written in Old Oeridian rather than the common tongue. It's not that Pholtus doesn't want the common people to worship him, but his priests are a bit more ivory-tower elite, and have more difficulty reaching a less educated audience. St. Cuthbert's clerics are like Friar Tuck dressed in peasant garb, while Pholtus's clerics are dressed in fine robes.

    Also: St. Cuthbert is popular in Tenh, and Pholtus is popular in the Pale, two traditional rivals. While Cuthbert isn't normally thought of as specifically Flan, he's closely allied with Flan gods (especially Rao) and lacks the specifically Oeridian background of Pholtus.

    There are other differences in approach. St. Cuthbert has telepathic thought police that ensure his faithful don't commit thoughtcrimes, while Pholtus doesn't seem to bother with that sort of approach - instead, he's more likely to keep his flock singing songs and contemplating the Blinding Light. St. Cuthbert's clerics go around bashing people on the heads with cudgels without any warning or hearing, while Pholtus has inquisitors and elaborate formal trials.

    Crossposting from another thread, a myth about Cuthbert from the point of view of the faithful of Pholtus.

    Among mortals, there was no servant of Law as stalwart as Cuthbert of the Cudgel, who roamed the world showing Chaos and Evil the error of its ways.

    One day, some say during a mighty battle against a dragon, Cuthbert was struck with a blow to his head, crushing his hat and making him simple. Cuthbert thought he saw a star guiding him on a new path, but this light was false, not the true Blinding Light but a product of his own delusion. This false light led Cuthbert to deny the true doctrines. Where Pholtus teaches correctly that buying indulgences from his church can burn away sin, Cuthbert claimed that indulgences were a false assurance of salvation and an unfair burden on the poor. In doing so, Cuthbert's wicked teachings have damned many misguided souls to the Nine Hells, for faith alone cannot redeem a soul. Cuthbert also taught that holy books should be translated into Common instead of the original sacred tongue of Old Oeridian. In doing so, he has distorted their meaning and led many into error and corruption.

    Cuthbert's false vision of the Light has now become his starburst symbol, and too many deluded souls now look to it instead of the true Blinding Light that only Pholtus can guide them to. The thugs and blackguards known as the Stars and Chapeaux use armed force to keep people from seeing the true Light. The Chapeaux corrupt innocents while the Stars invade the minds of those who might otherwise find redemption.
    Adept Greytalker

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    Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:04 am  

    They're like John Wayne and Clint Eastwood. The end result is the same, but the killin' that went on to get there was differn't.
    Site Theocrat

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    Thu Apr 07, 2011 3:03 pm  

    I am reminded more and more that I really need to get off this Pathfinder / WoG 2.0 kick and get back to writing that Churches of Pholtus article for the OJ.
    First and spelled st. cuthbert wrong. He is a frickin' saint. He's not a god. So his name isn't capitalized when in comparison to the One True Path of Pholtus.
    For more on Pholtus - please check out my site - - if I can figure out the new Web hosting company it'll be up soon. If needed sooner, there are a ton of forum posts by me regarding Pholtus and several in which I break down the different churches. I know there's a couple where someone even asked a question in which st. cuthbert, Pholtus and some other loser walk in to a bar....In that I describe which churches of Pholtus would do in different circumstances.
    I think it was OJ 12 in that I wrote an article on the Knights of the Valorous League. While they are Nyrondesse and a faction of fanatics you might find it insightful. I also wrote a story about the Paganhammer, their leader with 3.0 stats for him.
    In the end, it's Pholtus that has a whole nation dedicated to his worship. The Great Kingdom was founded on many of the principles of the LG worship of Pholtus. Whereas st. cuthbert, he's just a saint to Rao. He sucks.
    There can be only one True Path to Righteous and Glory....
    Church of the One True Path of Pholtus
    Theocrat Issak
    Theocrat Issak
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    From: So. Cal

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    Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:26 pm  

    And so there you have it. Finally, a non-predisposed opinion of the differences between Pholtus and St. Cuthbert. Laughing
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    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jan 05, 2002
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    From: Sky Island, So Cal

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    Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:52 pm  

    IronGolem wrote:
    One's Catholic, the other Southern Baptist. Wink

    Perhaps more relevant to rossik,

    Pholtus is evangelista or carismatica.

    St. Cuthbert is liberation theology (conservative kind, loyal to the catholic church, not marxist kind) or perhaps opus dei.
    My campaigns are multilayered tapestries upon which I texture themes and subject matter which, quite frankly, would simply be too strong for your hobbyist gamer.
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