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    Canonfire :: View topic - Can a monster run while flying?
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    Can a monster run while flying?
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    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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    From: LG Dyvers

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    Sun Aug 21, 2011 3:49 pm  
    Can a monster run while flying?

    I can't find the answer to this question in any of my books. Please help!

    Can a monster with a fly speed use a run action to fly four times that speed as a full round action?

    I know several aquatic monsters (like the dragon turtle) with a swim speed can use a run action as it says so in their entries in the Monster Manual. However, I can't seem to find such a reference for monsters with a fly speed (like wyverns). I assume they can, but would prefer to be certain if someone can direct me to a rules entry clarifying the issue.

    Edit: And a related question is the same with regard to magical items such as Wings of Flying. They provide a wearer with a fly speed of 60, but that's all it says. Can the wearer use a run action with the Wings to move 240 feet per round as long as s/he moves in a straight line?

    Thanks! Smile

    SirXaris
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 01, 2011
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    Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:33 am  

    This question has come up more than once at this point, I really wish Paizo had kept the Movement Modes from the old Monster Manuel.

    In 3.5 you could run with both Fly, and Swim. So unless you find something else that says otherwise I would say you can.

    You just can't run while under the effect of a fly spell. The fact that they mention you can't run here makes me think that they intended for you to be able to run with normal flying.

    Edit: Wings of Flying give a fly speed without saying something like "As Per the Fly spell" so I would be inclined to think that you can run with Wings of Flying.
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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    From: LG Dyvers

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    Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:23 am  

    Iressi wrote:

    In 3.5 you could run with both Fly, and Swim. So unless you find something else that says otherwise I would say you can.


    Thanks, Iressi! That helps, but what I'm looking for is a page reference that I can use to verify this. 'Some guy on the internet named Iressi' just isn't as solid of a reference for rules support - no offense intended. Razz

    Quote:

    You just can't run while under the effect of a fly spell. The fact that they mention you can't run here makes me think that they intended for you to be able to run with normal flying.

    Edit: Wings of Flying give a fly speed without saying something like "As Per the Fly spell" so I would be inclined to think that you can run with Wings of Flying.


    Funny, putting these two together, I'd come to just the opposite conclusion: that you can't use the run action with a magical item created using a spell that doesn't allow you to use the run action.

    SirXaris
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    Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:51 am  

    There isn't a page reference as far as Pathfinder is concerned since they don't really talk about it as far as I know.

    However I said before it in 3.5 here:

    D20 SRD wrote:
    A creature that flies can make dive attacks. A dive attack works just like a charge, but the diving creature must move a minimum of 30 feet and descend at least 10 feet. It can make only claw or talon attacks, but these deal double damage. A creature can use the run action while flying, provided it flies in a straight line.


    You can find that here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm just do a Control + F for Movement Modes.

    As far as the magic item goes obviously you will need to do it the way you want :) Anyway's sorry that I wasn't more help .
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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    From: LG Dyvers

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    Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:55 pm  

    Iressi wrote:
    Anyway's sorry that I wasn't more help .


    You've been a great help, Iressi! Thanks! Smile

    SirXaris
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    Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:06 pm  

    Glad to hear it! :) Just wish I could have found a answer in Pathfinder.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 10, 2003
    Posts: 1234
    From: New Jersey

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    Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:37 pm  

    Iressi,

    Pathfinder has a fly skill I wonder if all flying effects for Paizo are determined by that skill. Though nothing in the SRD for Paizo clarifies this.
    I would say only those with a natural flying ability can increase their fly speed. While those provided by a magical item or spell will not allow the recipient to increase his speed.

    Later

    Argon
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    Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:01 am  

    So are you saying by that you can't even do a double move?

    D20PFSRD wrote:
    If you do nothing but move (that is, if you use both of your actions in a round to move your speed), you can move double your speed.


    That part is here: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Tactical-Movement

    Not saying your wrong or anything I am just curious. The Knights are getting up there in level so flying is going to become more common in my game so some thoughts on that would be nice :)
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 10, 2003
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    Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:41 pm  

    Iressi,

    I'm saying that's how I would rule on it. Your free to make your decision on such things. However a creature born to fly should be better at it then someone with magical means of flying. That's just my opinion because the SRD does not cover this particular subject.

    Later

    Argon
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    Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:21 pm  

    Oh I know I was just curious :) I suppose it makes sense on some level that flying creatures are better at it.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    From: So. Cal

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    Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:20 am  

    I think he is saying that a character can close their eyes really, really tight, and wish really, really hard, blow a sphincter even, but their fly spell just won't fly them around any faster.

    However, a character can make an additional Move action instead of taking a Standard action. That would mean that a character could, in effect, double their flying movement from a spell with no increase to the power of the spell, only the time devoted to its use. All they can do is fly though(barring any Free/Swift actions they could also take).

    I agree that a creature with a natural flying ability(wings) can exert effort to fly faster(otherwise my bat familiar "Ren Hoek" would not be wishing for HUGE pectoral muscles all of the time), and so could use the Run rules for its flying speed. It just makes sense.
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    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 10, 2003
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    Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:30 pm  

    Cebrion,

    You are correct sir. That is exactly what I was saying.

    Later

    Argon
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    Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:46 pm  

    Gotcha, I will keep that in mind for when/if flying comes up. :)
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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    From: LG Dyvers

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    Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:53 pm  

    That all sounds very reasonable to me. I just didn't want to assume anything only to later find out I'd missed a written rule contradicting my own reasoning. Razz

    Thanks fellas!

    SirXaris
    GreySage

    Joined: Oct 06, 2008
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    Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:23 am  

    SirXaris wrote:
    I just didn't want to assume anything only to later find out I'd missed a written rule contradicting my own reasoning.


    Ahh! To live by the "letter of the law." No wonder Sir Xaris is Lawful Good!

    Me? I'm Neutral Good, meaning I obey the laws that I want to and rewrite the ones I don't like. This is also known as DMing. Wink

    In all the movies, Pegasus is "running" while he's flying. It looks like it makes him faster. But, who knows? I've never "seen" him fly without "running," so . . .

    Evil Grin
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    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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    From: LG Dyvers

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    Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:16 pm  

    Mystic-Scholar wrote:
    SirXaris wrote:
    I just didn't want to assume anything only to later find out I'd missed a written rule contradicting my own reasoning.


    Ahh! To live by the "letter of the law." No wonder Sir Xaris is Lawful Good!

    Me? I'm Neutral Good, meaning I obey the laws that I want to and rewrite the ones I don't like. This is also known as DMing. Wink


    Nah. In the other thread I named myself Neutral Good as well. However, I am in the process of writing an adventure for publication using the 3.5 edition rules and don't want to make any unnecessary rules goofs. DMs are certainly free to apply or change any rule as they like, but when publishing an adventure based upon a specific rules edition, it seems prudent to stick to those rules as published. Thus, I wanted to 'get it right'. Wink

    Quote:

    In all the movies, Pegasus is "running" while he's flying. It looks like it makes him faster. But, who knows? I've never "seen" him fly without "running," so . . .

    Evil Grin


    Yeah, I point that out to my kids as well. Razz

    SirXaris
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