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Locations of the Battle of Emridy Meadows

 
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nerdcav
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:27 pm    Post subject: Locations of the Battle of Emridy Meadows Reply with quote

I'm pouring over Anna's excellent maps (this one particularly) and I'm trying to get a fix on where the battles took place. As I understand it from mortellan's article, The Battle of Emridy Meadows, first contact was made "on the open fields several leagues south of Verbobonc City and northwest of Hommlet called Emridy Meadows." Looking to the maps, I see Emridy Run starting just north of Hommlet, with open areas to the northwest of the Run's head. Looking at the topography, this area would allow a natural path for the host of the Temple, between the Kron Hills and the Fens of Tor. Perhaps the initial confrontation took place somewhere near the "E" in "Emridy" on that map? Or, and this is crazy, perhaps the crossed sword icon Anna placed on the map indicates her best guess of the battlesite. It seems mort himself was unable to get much clarity from documentation, as he mentions in FN2.

As stated in the article, after the first skirmish, Prince Thrommel IV pulled his forces northward in a feint that led the horde between a bend in the Velverdyva and the Gnarley Forest. I'm guessing that they would have had to travel cross country, as traveling along the Low Road would have led the horde through Etterboek and Verbobonc, and traveling directly north would bring it dangerously close to Penwick. I imagine that the most likely battlesite would be at the bend in the Velverdyva where the "L" of the "Low Road" is, about 20 miles northeast of Verbobonc, 20 miles southwest of Oakham and 20 miles directly north of Penwick. That's approximately 30 miles from the initial confrontation, so it would make sense that the full battle takes place the following day.

What I don't see at this location is how "150 more elven warriors came from hidden reserve in the Gnarley Forest". The edge of the forest, at least on this map, is a good 20 miles away. The articles I've read here and on other wikis make it sound as if the Elves sprang from the forest - that the Horde was pressed between the river on the west and the forest on the east. The only place I could see this happening, at a bend in the river, is almost 100 miles north of the Meadows, just northeast of Stalmaer, in the Northeastern-most branch of the Gnarley. This path would be extremely unlikely, and would bear much more risk to the surrounding communities. More likely is that I've misread how close the Gnarley is to main battle on the bank of the Velverdyva.

Does anyone have a clear idea of the location these historical battles, on Anna's map specifically, or on another map? I look forward to any feedback!
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Last edited by nerdcav on Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Anna
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A very interesting topic nerdcav!

I made the map of this area over a decade ago and some of the research even before then, so I'm not really sure how I was thinking.

I know I try to make the extra effort to get things right and this one seems to be a tricky one. Like so many times its discussions like this that make it possible for me to make the best possible maps. So this is a great topic and I welcome all facts and judgments so we might be able to get things right. There might be more things I got wrong in the area.....

Thanks again nerdcav Smile

Anna
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nerdcav
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Locations of the Battle of Emridy Meadows Reply with quote

nerdcav wrote:
Or, and this is crazy, perhaps the crossed sword icon Anna placed on the map indicates her best guess of the battlesite.


I hope you understood that I was being sarcastic - I didn't see the crossed swords icon until halfway through writing the post, and after I checked your legend I realized it wasn't a humanoid settlement like I originally thought. I think your maps are fantastic and appreciate all the hard work you put into them!

Also, your map is not alone in showing the Gnarley a goodly distance from the riverbank in question - the original hex map from the WOG box set shows the same separation. On that map the edge of the forest is about 1 hex from the bend in the Velverdyva.
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mortellan
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe when I wrote my article that I referenced a few maps including Anna's and the one from the TOEE. As with most things tying together different game related sources don't always mesh well so we take our best shot.

It does little good for contemporary use of Emridy to be intentionally vague since the battle occured within many character's lifetimes, but I'm sure University of Rel Mord scholars in 2000 CY will have a fun time locating artifacts from Emridy, much like we would trying to piece together sites of ancient battles. Rivers move, coasts change, forests recede, etc.
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nerdcav
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the feedback mortellan.

mortellan wrote:
It does little good for contemporary use of Emridy to be intentionally vague since the battle occured within many character's lifetimes, but I'm sure University of Rel Mord scholars in 2000 CY will have a fun time locating artifacts from Emridy, much like we would trying to piece together sites of ancient battles. Rivers move, coasts change, forests recede, etc.


This is kind of what I had in mind - I think it would be interesting to have some critical item for the defeat of the revived ToEE be lost on the battlegrounds. Since Prince Thrommel IV and his forces quickly pursued the horde back to the temple after the battle by the banks of the Velverdyva, it's perfectly sensible that several things that should not have been lost sunk into the battlefield. Perhaps they were carried off by scavengers, or some wandering creature - back to it's lair. You're 100% about things changing though - who know what shifts the Gnarly and the river have gone through over the years. Thanks again!
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mcneilk
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a rookie Greyhawker. Huge thanks to Anna for those awsome maps.

The text says east of Verbobonc and north. "150 more elven warriors came from hidden reserve in the Gnarley Forest to close the killing arc." Unless the river meant is Imeryds Run i don't see anywhere these elven warriors could have been hiding in the gnarley. Possibly the warriors came from the gnarley to join the fight and were not physically hiding in the forest.
In that case it would have to be south of Eglath but not so close as to be threatening to the town. My guess would be right at the bend where the Velverdyva River bends west towards Verbobonc.
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Cebrion
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think people are misunderstanding that the elves didn't just suddenly spring out of the Gnarley Forest. The forces of weal merely maneuvered their forces, such that the elves emerged from a point at the edge of the forest where they were far enough out to be able to cut off the forces of evil before they could escape by that route. This was not a big "Ha-HAH!" surprise moment for the forces of weal. Large battles just don't work that way. Situations in battle develop, not happen instantaneously- even in a fantasy world (well, at least in this fantasy world).

Picture it this way:

Seeing that they are soon to be surrounded, a portion of the forces of evil noticed a gap in the lines of the forces of weal along the border of the Gnarley Forest, so they began to make their way there, hoping to escape. Before they even came close to escaping, they saw a large group of elves emerge from the edge of the forest a good distance away At the fore was the banner of Clan Meldarin, the finest of archers among the Sylvan elves of the Gnarley, but along side it was also the banner of Clan Sherendyl, the finest warriors. Both clans advanced in support of one another, raining down death upon the enemy, and cutting down any who made it to close quarters.

Also, consider that the larger maps are not perfectly accurate, so the battle descriptions and the maps might not coincide perfectly. For the purposes of this portion of the battle, the forest probably doesn't have a hard border, but begins to thin from where its edge is marked on the maps. And of course that was in the past, so even more trees would have been thinned out by farmers/woodcutters/whatever over the course of ten years or so, meaning the literal edge of the forest likely extended outwards ever farther at the time of the battle. It would not be much of a stretch to say that this is so.

Lastly, I should bug mortellan to get some bigger versions of his battle maps made, with unit keys added to them, and then get those put into his article (because it would be awesome! Laughing).
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Dark_Lord_Galen
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cebrion wrote:

Lastly, I should bug mortellan to get some bigger versions of his battle maps made, with unit keys added to them, and then get those put into his article (because it would be awesome! Laughing).

Thread Bump
Like others, I would be interested in this.
And I "assume" the bigger versions" you reference would be these?
Quote:
mortellan wrote:
I'm not sure what Don did or plans to do with my attached maps. I was torn on whether to make them or not, but I did end up doing them so it'd be a shame not to show them off. I'll post them here for further comparison on the article.

http://greyhawkonline.com/mortellan/ghfiles/emridy3.jpg

http://greyhawkonline.com/mortellan/ghfiles/emridy4.jpg
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