Signup
Welcome to... Canonfire! World of GreyhawK
Features
Postcards from the Flanaess
Adventures
in Greyhawk
Cities of
Oerth
Deadly
Denizens
Jason Zavoda Presents
The Gord Novels
Greyhawk Wiki
#greytalk
JOIN THE CHAT
ON DISCORD
    Canonfire :: View topic - Best Fighter/Mage spells?
    Canonfire Forum Index -> Greyhawk- AD&D 2nd Edition
    Best Fighter/Mage spells?
    Author Message
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: May 25, 2012
    Posts: 106
    From: Virginia

    Send private message
    Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:24 am  
    Best Fighter/Mage spells?

    I'm playing around with a Bladesinger kit and was thinking about what the most strategic use of magic would be for a fighter/mage. At first I thought of going for touch attacks, like Chill Touch or Shocking Grasp, but as they don't tend to be heavy on damage it would probably be better to use a weapon instead. That lead me to consider enhancement spells like Strength and Cat's Grace - even Jump. I imagine that the multiclass mage would be more specialized in the type of spells it took - not a jack of all trades, so to speak. This gives our single-class mage a bigger part of the pie, while maximizing the effectiveness of the multi-class mage in it's role. Just interested in your feedback!
    _________________
    No place is safe, only safer.
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
    Posts: 2715
    From: LG Dyvers

    Send private message
    Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:30 am  

    I am guessing that you are using 3.5e rules so I suggest you consider the Practiced Spellcaster feat (CDiv p82 or CArc p82).

    You can also get some good ideas for your own 3.5e versions of the Magus PC class (Pathfinder) abilities, such as those he gets via his Arcane Pool, Magus Arcana, and Spell Strike.

    http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus

    SirXaris
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 09, 2003
    Posts: 1361
    From: Tennessee, between Ft. Campbell & APSU

    Send private message
    Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:49 am  

    SirXaris wrote:
    I am guessing that you are using 3.5e rules...


    ...I thougt Nerdcav was using AD&D2. If he's using prestige classes, must be AD&D2 + variants. Wink
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: May 25, 2012
    Posts: 106
    From: Virginia

    Send private message
    Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:43 am  

    Bladesinger is a kit in the Complete Book of Elves. It's available as a fighter/mage kit. The kit has a number of advantages - it gets a +1 bonus to attack and damage (fighter/mages can't specialize so this is a nice bump), it gets +1/4 levels to special maneuvers, it gets parry defense while spellcasting and can perform somatic gestures one handed with a penalty to casting time. As a front liner, thinking of spells like Taunt, Web, Jump...spells that provide a bonus to the combat, as well as detect spells since the bladesinger will be the first into danger.
    _________________
    No place is safe, only safer.
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
    Posts: 2715
    From: LG Dyvers

    Send private message
    Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:26 am  

    Okay, then. My suggestion is to take a look at those feats/special abilities I listed above and convert them to the edition you are using. They are all OGL and free to access online, so there is no problem stealing them for ideas. Wink

    The most useful spells for a Bladesinger, in my opinion, would be those that grant AC bonuses and those that allow him to administer Touch attack spells through his weapons via regular attacks. (A chop by a longsword channeling Shocking Grasp , Ghoul Touch, or Energy Drain Shocked when it hits would be a powerful blow! Razz )

    SirXaris
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: May 25, 2012
    Posts: 106
    From: Virginia

    Send private message
    Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:44 am  

    SirXaris wrote:
    those that allow him to administer Touch attack spells through his weapons via regular attacks. (A chop by a longsword channeling Shocking Grasp , Ghoul Touch, or Energy Drain Shocked when it hits would be a powerful blow! Razz )


    Is that a special feat in 3.5E or can that be done in any edition? Sounds promising even for my vanilla mage and his trusty +1 dagger.

    EDIT: Nevermind - DM's privledge - IMC it's allowed at 3rd level for any spellcaster. Man that feels good! I think I'm getting the handle on this DM thing Wink
    _________________
    No place is safe, only safer.
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
    Posts: 2470
    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

    Send private message
    Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:41 pm  

    All of the Complete Guides are tailor made for 1e or 2e, depending on your preference.

    My Avatar, Lanthorn, IS a bladesinger, and I have wide experience with this character class/kit. For your purposes, you may wish to refer to The Complete Book of Wizards since it breaks down some of the 'best' spells from each of the various wizardly Schools. It all depends on the level of your character, as was previously mentioned, as well as what general effect you desire.

    For raw consistency, I find that NOTHING beats a good Magic Missile. Barring a countering Shield spell or cover, it hits automatically and you get an extra missile every other level, to a maximum of five. I am also preferential to Burning Hands and many of the touch-related spells, since armor does NOT confer any protection against many/most of them.

    However, it really depends on your intention...

    -Lanthorn
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: May 25, 2012
    Posts: 106
    From: Virginia

    Send private message
    Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:20 pm  

    Lanthorn wrote:
    However, it really depends on your intention...


    Well, it's a doozy. One of my players is getting married and his fiance want's to join us. Soooo, at her request, I'm building her a character that fits into the arch of the story. She's never played D&D before.

    My party's ranger has a love interest with a young elven bladesinger, Shavain, who is currently leading a band of bladesingers to rescue an elven noble thought to be in the ToEE (who is secretly in search of her love, a hidden Prince...). The new party member, Celeste, will be a member of that bladesinger party. My group has already come in contact with the bladesinger force once, and it was a powerful encounter for the ranger. The meeting was short however, cut off by necessity. The next time my players will come across them it will be to rescue them from a deadly ambush. Shavain will have been captured and taken away and only Celeste will have survived from the band. She will of course be driven to rescue her mentor and leader and to complete their original quest.

    <deep breath>

    Given that the player for Celeste has no previous AD&D experience (but is a big MMO player) I wanted to front-load her character with enough ammo to take off running. Being a multi-class kit, I'm only really looking at 1st and 2nd level spells for now - my party is currently only 2nd level. I have about a month before she starts, so I thought I'd start digging. Also, I'm a geek and I really enjoy building characters. Anyway, that's my intention...
    _________________
    No place is safe, only safer.
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
    Posts: 2470
    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

    Send private message
    Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:02 pm  

    So, you want offensive power, I am guessing. Do you have access to the aforementioned Complete Guide to Wizards?

    For damaging spells, those of the Evocation/Invocation School are hard to beat, with a few from the Alteration and Necromancy School (thought elves are oftentimes put off from them since they are antithetical to the elven philosophy of life and natural cycles) as close contenders.

    Here are some to consider, in any random order:

    1st lvl: Burning Hands, Color Spray, Magic Missile, Shocking Grasp, Chill Touch, Sleep, and even Phantasmal Force

    2nd lvl: Web, Stinking Cloud, Irritation, Glitterdust, Improved Phantasmal Force, Summon Swarm, Spectral Hand (great for wielding a blade!)

    Just some ideas,

    Lanthorn, Bladesinger
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
    Posts: 3836
    From: So. Cal

    Send private message
    Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:10 am  

    Here would be my short list for starters, assuming that there is no straight up wizard in the party (all spells are from the PHB 2E, unless otherwise noted):

    1st- shocking grasp (transmitted through the wire-wrapped grip of a sword, so sword damage PLUS shocking grasp damage!!! Shocked Cool), armor(more AC is always good; good duration), protection from evil (AC and save bonuses, plus decent duration). Other recommended spells: magic missile (for when you need to hit something that is hard to hit), identify, spider climb, sleep, burning hands.

    2nd- mirror image (hugely important to a melee character with fewer hit points than a fighter will normally have), blur (even more AC bonuses). Other recommended spells: web (to slow down hordes), stinking cloud (to incapacitate hordes), glitterdust, invisibility.

    3rd- haste!!! (Double attacks, movement, -2 Initiative, and it affects 1 creature per level? Yes please! Happy), slow (really screws over your enemies; combined with haste it is a killer), blink (if the character has low enough Initiative, they can attack and blink away before enemies can strike back), spirit armor (Tome of Magic). Other recommended spells: fireball, lightning bolt, monster summoning I (never hurts to have allies to attack, harass, flank, overbear/grapple, keep enemies at bay, etc.).

    Other than that, anything that buffs combat or protection/hinders enemies, especially if it can affect multiple allied/enemy targets. You want the spells to have as much impact as possible, because when they are being cast, the swords are not being swung. Therefore, stick to spells that are "fire and forget", and stay away from spells require concentration or that need to roll to hit and do less damage than swords. Keep the character active, as they have a multi-functional roll within the party. Also, keep missile weapon use to a minimum unless the character is wounded or needs to take on a ranged support roll in a particular encounter/situation, and tailor proficiencies to offense/defense in close combat (i.e. tumbling, blind fighting, running, endurance), plus spellcraft.
    _________________
    - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 09, 2001
    Posts: 655


    Send private message
    Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:09 pm  

    One of the players in my campaign has a multi-classed Bladesinger/Song Mage. The combination works out very nicely. What I like most of all is the Song Mage doesn't have any evocation spells, so the player has learned to rely on other, more tricky, spells. I'll list his most frequently used spells:

    1st Level: Charm Person (why fight if you don't have to?). Taunt (to get missile-using foes to close). Grease (in conjunction with fly, it's a good combo, messing with foes while you are basically hovering).

    2nd Level: Strength (obviously), Mirror Image, Invisibility

    3rd Level: Fly (see above).

    Oh, and Illusions of all types. He uses more illusions than anyone I've ever met!
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: May 11, 2008
    Posts: 25


    Send private message
    Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:32 am  

    One of my favorite adventures (as a player) was Thiondar's Legacy from Dungeon Magazine #30. The main villain was a powerful fighter/mage that managed to devastate my entire party single handed. In this adventure, I learned the hard way how certain spells can greatly enhance martial abilities.

    Granted the main villain employed powerful magical items but it was his spell preparation that truly made him a formidable opponent. He employed the following spells when we confronted him:
    Detect invisibility, Protection from normal missiles, Haste, Stoneskin, Fire shield & Globe of invulnerability

    My favorite PC (a survivor of this particular adventure and a high level fighter/mage himself) frequently employs some of these spells with great effectiveness. My favorites are:
    Haste - double your attacks on opponents
    Stoneskin - hit without being hit back (for a while at least)
    Fire shield - persons attacking you take damage
    Globe of invulnerability (or Minor version) - protect against low level spells

    Other fighter/mage spells I have come across are:
    Seeking & Conduit - Complete book of elves
    Mage blade, Quarry & Archers wind - Ruins of the White Watch adventure

    There are also a number of spells created by the fighter/mage Alnor that are very useful to this class combination - Alnor's armorer, Spectral bow, Steelskin, Energy lances, Mantle of invulnerability & Omnipotent globe - I believe these are on the website of Phillip Niewold (?)

    Dane
    GreySage

    Joined: Sep 09, 2009
    Posts: 2470
    From: SW WA state (Highvale)

    Send private message
    Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:18 am  

    Quite right, Dane!

    In my campaign, I have chosen to make the 'half-mad' grey elf named Keak (fighter/mage), who is a servant of Iuz as a member of his deadly Boneshadow, a rogue bladesinger.

    Some of my own personal favorites: Slow, Mirror Image, Blur, Improved Invisibility, Confusion, Strength, and Minor Spell Turning. Yes! to Stoneskin and many of the other previous suggestions. Happy

    I personally don't like Haste due to its side effect of aging. For an elf, not such an issue at first, but it will catch up with you in time. Minor Globe is good, but is immobile, so for a quick-moving, agile warrior like a bladesinger, probably not terribly useful (unless you are standing still, casting spells OUT of it, at first). Minor Spell Turning, though limited in how many spell lvls it will reflect, at least moves with the caster.

    -Lanthorn
    Display posts from previous:   
       Canonfire Forum Index -> Greyhawk- AD&D 2nd Edition All times are GMT - 8 Hours
    Page 1 of 1

    Jump to:  

    You cannot post new topics in this forum
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum
    You cannot vote in polls in this forum




    Canonfire! is a production of the Thursday Group in assocation with GREYtalk and Canonfire! Enterprises

    Contact the Webmaster.  Long Live Spidasa!


    Greyhawk Gothic Font by Darlene Pekul is used under the Creative Commons License.

    PHP-Nuke Copyright © 2005 by Francisco Burzi. This is free software, and you may redistribute it under the GPL. PHP-Nuke comes with absolutely no warranty, for details, see the license.
    Page Generation: 1.17 Seconds