I've often wondered about creatures like the demons or the devas and where they came from. They're just assumed to have existed for all time, AFAIK, and was just wondering on their origins and where they came from. In one of the myths and tales I came up with for my own setting, the celestials came first, the original line of defense against the Dark Lord, Dread Tharizdun. Tharizdun threatened the Oerth long ago, and had absorbed the souls of many wicked and evil peoples of every race to manifest himself on the material plane.
When the Dark Lord's apocalypse seemed nigh, one brave solar, who had a heart so pure Zodal himelf wept over its beauty, volunteered to sacrifice herself to weaken Dread Tharizdun long enough for his enemies to imprison him. The Dark Lord swallowed her whole, and was made ill by consuming her goodness. All the gods joined forces to bind him, but before they could complete their business the Dark Lord grew so ill that he vomited up the corrupted souls he had swallowed. Twisted by Tharizdun's evil, they had become the devils, the demons, and the daemons. The most powerful of them became lords and masters, and settled on the planes that Dread Tharizdun had left in his wake.
The original lords and masters were the original forms of Baphomet, Asmodeus, Orcus, and all the rest of the hellish creatures that plague the multiverse even today. The great celestials, solars and devas remain to oppose them. And so the conflict continues...
So, I wonder: Where do the great masses of extraplanar creatures, both good and evil, come from? I'm also including demodands, moon dogs, ki-rin, baku, foo creatures, night hags, and all the other good and evil creatures that come from the Outer Planes. Are they creatures that were born on their native planes? Are they the spirits of good and evil people who have gone to the Outer Planes after death, and taken on so many different forms to carry on the struggle between good and evil? Are they creatures of flesh and blood, or the stuff of magic, held together by the energy of their planar homes and possessed of no true physical bodies? Do extraplanar creatures retain their memories of previous lives, if in fact they used to be living creatures from the Prime Material Plane? What happens when a prominent creature (such as Orcus or Demogorgon, for instance) is slain and someone new takes their place? Do they acquire all the trappings, personality and powers of their predecessors, or become totally new and unique creatures in their own right?
If a demon named Scarmiglione slays Orcus, for example, and seizes the demon prince's power, does that mean he instantly becomes the new Orcus? Or does the title of Prince of the Undead pass to Scarmiglione?
What are the origins of your extraplanar creatures? Are they the stuff of sorcery, with once-human minds and souls at their core, or are they real and seperate living entitites?
Sorry, just want to show my new signature, heheh. _________________ <div align="left">Going to war without Keoland is like going to war without a pipe organ. They both make a lot of noise and they're both a lot of dead weight, so what's the point in taking them along? </div>
interesting thread. i never thought much on this subject, outsiders being outsiders are one of the things you take for granted in a campaign.
now i do recall in the 1E monster manual that a greater devil slain reforms as a lemure and regrows for several decades and an archdevil is confined to his plane for a decade. hope thats some help.
Adding to the previous post and a recent excursion to the lower planes my party "enjoyed", I might be able to add a few details.
IIRC in the Planescape setting it mentions something like lawful evil beings on Oerth and other worlds (?) when they die they go to, in this case, The Nine Hells and appear as a lemure devil, and very slowly over time they can get promoted up the devil chain.
So if lawful evil ppl go to Hell, chaotic ppl to the Abyss, lawful good to whereever good people go (Belgium?) this is the source for some of the extra planar creatures. They are made up of the dead spirits of mortals who are sent to the appropiate place.
Hope this helps. _________________ The only Good hobbit is a well-done hobbit.
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