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    Canonfire :: View topic - Plz Help - Suloise Names Needed
    Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion
    Plz Help - Suloise Names Needed
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    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 17, 2004
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    Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:22 pm  
    Plz Help - Suloise Names Needed

    As the caretaker of the "Beyond the Flanaess" Project; I have struggled to create coherence of the scattered notes and drafts of the various authors.

    Burned out on names: Finishing Zahind (Penisula Below Ryuujin/Nippon); I require suloise inspired names. Such as cities forests, lakes, rivers...

    Once completed; perhaps a cartography genius would be willing to transform the crude paint rendition into a refined framework map.

    Help, plz help... Any assistance is appreciated

    Btw: Gazetteer of Gulf of Ghayar is completed and finishing the massive Celestial Imperium. CSL is on Darak Urtag and Domain of the Giant King.

    PS: Finally wrestled "Bubbagump" Holy Kingdom of Erypt into a draft. Contact me - Admission to Drop Box
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 09, 2003
    Posts: 1326
    From: Clarksville, TN

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    Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:06 pm  
    Re: Plz Help - Suloise Names Needed

    Crag wrote:
    ...Burned out on names: Finishing Zahind (Penisula Below Ryuujin/Nippon); I require suloise inspired names. Such as cities forests, lakes, rivers...


    The Scarlet Brotherhood has a dictionary with lots of Suel place names (Hill, Island, etc.).

    While we're at it, why Suel for Zahind? Question
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 17, 2004
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    Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:59 am  

    Forgot about the SB; thanks

    The scraps of notes received for the regions; seemed to indicate a heretical mixture of suloise and baklunish beliefs. Driven from the Sunlea Coast, specifically Jahind and risked a treacherous voyage. Conquering the native peoples, they laid the foundations.

    Personally; I was intrigued at exploring a cultural union between the baklunish-suloise rather then the same old - ancient enemies dynamic.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 10, 2003
    Posts: 1234
    From: New Jersey

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    Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:59 pm  

    Crag,

    There's a free software on the web called Ebon. Which can generate names for Greyhawk you can download it here http://ebon.pyorre.net/ That should help. I know the religious section of Darak Urtag was done by me a while ago . Have CSL drop me a pm if he needs any help cleaning up the religious section or for anything else in Darak Urtag.

    Heck send me an update at the oerthjournal gmail account. We loved what you've got so far, and would love to see anything else you have.

    Thanks for your contributions to the community.

    Later

    Argon
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 09, 2003
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    Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:41 pm  

    Argon wrote:
    ...Thanks for your contributions to the community...


    -Ah!! Are we too late to throw in our two coppers? Just in case...

    Crag wrote:
    ...The scraps of notes received for the regions; seemed to indicate a heretical mixture of suloise and baklunish beliefs. Driven from the Sunlea Coast, specifically Jahind and risked a treacherous voyage. Conquering the native peoples, they laid the foundations.

    Personally; I was intrigued at exploring a cultural union between the baklunish-suloise rather then the same old - ancient enemies dynamic.


    -For Indian analogues:

    Suel:

    Wee Jas would make a good Mother Kali Creator/Destroyer, while Lydia would fill the Preserver side. Note: not the Kali of the AD&D1 Deities and Demigods book, for which... Beltar, Syrul, or Pyeremius could be the deities for a Thuggee Cult analogue (or maybe all three?).

    Bralm would fill the role of preserving and operating the caste system (if Jahind has one).

    Lendor as Father Creator and Preserver?

    Norebo, Kord, and Llerg have a "Nomads on the Move" Vedic feel. Maybe Maybe Phaulkon, too. Presumably they were more popular with the original Suel arrivals.

    Xerbo and Osprem would have been important to the original arrivals (since they came by sea); maybe less so now.

    Bakluni:

    Al Akbar and Azor 'Alq have the Islamic feel. Would they have been the the deities of the first Bakluni arrivals? Could set up Moghul Empire analogues. Or Pakistan...

    Istus, Xan Yae, and Zuoken could cover the "Hindu mysticism/yogi" angle.

    The Flann are supposed to be the aboriginals of the Flanaess (thus the name), but with a name like Rao, some of their deities would fit in (maybe the pre-Suel and Bakluni aboriginals?). If Beltar, Syrul, or Pyremius don't work for the Thuggees, why not Nerull?

    Of course, I'm assuming that the Bakluni are also "new" arrivals. Maybe not.

    You mentioned the cultural union between Suel and Bakluni. Anything outright syncreatic, like Sikhism? Of course, that specific example developed out of attempts to reconcile conflict between Muslim and Hindu, which you're trying to play down. Maybe there was when they first met. Or the syncreatism could take a different course.

    Just a few ideas based on the historical analogues. FWIW.
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 17, 2004
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    Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:39 am  

    Thanks for the encouragement; everyone
    - Remembered Ebon; tremendous aid as I was getting mentally exhausted over the endless names.
    - jamesdglick: great ideas, appreciate it - very much what I had in mind.

    Spoilers
    Got to create some variation on the Thuggee Cult; it screams Wee Jas and is just to juicy to ignore IMHO. If you are interested; I would love to discuss your ideas. Forewarned: I will try to convince you to work on these "largely untouched areas"

    Btw: I have almost completed an albeit crude continental map encompassing the various gazetteers. I used grodog's cartography for the southeastern regions but lack the names for the Sunelan Coast. Anyone willing to send them, would be greatly appreciated.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 09, 2003
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    Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:51 pm  

    Crag wrote:
    ...Got to create some variation on the Thuggee Cult; it screams Wee Jas and is just to juicy to ignore IMHO. If you are interested; I would love to discuss your ideas...


    -You're speaking of the woman I love. Laughing

    She's fine for the Kali as she's normally worshipped, but I think Wee Jas' death thing is as caretaker of the dead, not reaper of souls. I don't think she approve. Laughing Of course, it's possible that the Oerik Thuggees merely claim to do it under Wee Jas' auspices, for which there might be real world precedent:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuggee

    "Thuggee trace their origin to the battle of Kali against Raktabija; however, their foundation myth departs from Brahminical versions of the Puranas. Thuggee consider themselves to be children of Kali, created out of her sweat. This particular point is also one of the clear disconnects in the story built on the thuggees. While only Hindus worship Kali, a large number of the thuggees captured and convicted by the British were Muslims.

    According to some sources, especially old colonial sources, Thuggee believed they had a positive role, saving humans' lives. Without Thuggee's sacred service, Kali might destroy all the human kind...

    In contrast, Dash states that they did not have a religious motive to kill and that the colonial sources were wrong and prejudiced in that respect...

    ...Dash rejects the colonial emphasis on the religious motivation for robbing, but instead asserts that monetary gain was the main motivation for Thuggee and that men sometimes became Thugs due to extreme poverty. He further asserts that the Thugs were highly superstitious and that they worshipped the Hindu goddess Kali, but that their faith was not very different from their contemporary non-Thugs. He admits, though, that the Thugs had certain group-specific superstitions and rituals."

    ...so maybe they just pretend to worship Wee Jas. Or they're misguided. Or maybe the Thuggee genuinely fight a greater evil? All three, based on the individual?

    Instead of Wee Jas, I'd suggest Syrul, Beltar, or Pyeremius for the Suel. Maybe all three, but Pyremius seems the obvious one. Of course, if there's any Flann influence, Nerull is the obvious one. Or maybe Pyremius and Nerull teaming up? Doesn't seem likely, but who knows.

    Crag wrote:
    ...Forewarned: I will try to convince you to work on these "largely untouched areas"...


    -Eh, bitchin' and whinin' is more my style... Laughing

    Thought I'd bring this back:

    http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2639&highlight=

    I looked up the old Dragon magazine map of Western Oerik, and decided to see what else there is. I know that there is that whole wargaming rules Sundered Empire thing, but I don't have it and can't find it, and Zahind seems to be more "Central" Oerik anyway.

    I have no idea who this guy is, but it's a decent map:

    http://vindieselonddandriddick.blogspot.com/2012/05/mapping-beyond-flanaess-all-together-now.html#.UugL5Mvnbcs

    Here's one from a CFer:

    http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2639&highlight=

    http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2568&sid=e1c91fd67d453a841b69d786f189dd6b

    Roystonlodge brings up my quasi-Sikh idea.

    Incidentally, Rasgon makes an interesting point about not taking the Earth parallels too far. The Yeomanry is Merry Ole England (if it were landlocked and the Tropic of Cancer). Perrenland is Switzerland (with some really dark-skinned people). The Rhenee are Roma (Gypsies), only in barges. This makes the Attloi Roma, but in wagon caravans... But it's still fun. Just don't get too wrapped around the axel trying to make everything fit too much.

    Anyway, it looks like there might be a pass to the north of Zahind that the Suel could have used ages ago, before the Twin Cataclysims. Maybe there were two Suel migrations? An early one by land, a later one by sea? Maybe the migrations emphasized different parts of Suel culture. The Suel Imperium seems to have gone through the same trajectory that the Great Kingdom is going through: Starting as the Bright Beacon of Hope, ending as a nightmare. Maybe the earlier land migration was more "good guy"? Or maybe the later sea migration was more "good guy," dominated by those fleeing the Imperium's evil and decadence?

    It looks to me like the Bakluni would have a hard time getting there. They must have done so after the ID/ROCF.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 09, 2003
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    Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:20 am  

    On Suel emigration to the west, the Living Greyhawk Jouranl, volume 4, p. 8 mentions the Mahling Tapestry, which shows Suel refugees fleeing west from the Rain of Colorless Fire.
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