The Old One needs to go, in my estimation. He has lingered far too long in the Flanaess. It has come time to "write him out of the show."
If you disagree with the above, set that sentiment aside for a moment. Whst if it were up to you do expel The Old One from Oerth. What would you do? Allow one restriction to contain your get-rid-of-Iuz theory - no divine intervention. Keep it local, and use a party of PCs, a conglomerate of allied armies, an angry Circle of Eight, etc.
So you Iuz haters (like me) let loose. If you think Iuz is the best thing since Tasha's uncontrollable laughter, still take a shot at planning his end. And, of course, everyone in between.
The master of the City of Skulls mocks you . What do you do? _________________ Don (Greyson)
This just occured IMC as a matter of fact (3E Epic). A player whose cleric is a worshipper of Heironeous organized the Shield Lands and Furyondy into a crusade to stamp out Iuz. The other PCs took on roles as lieutenants or generals in various units. Using a mixture old Warmachine rules and regular hand to hand combat rules, they embarked on a 12 hour long session that resulted in Iuz's lands being overran until at last Dorakaa was seiged. When Iuz couldn't stand it any longer he came out and took on the cleric and the other epic heroes to a stalemate. Iuz seeing no true victory with his empire shattered, fled rather than be slain. The PCs could have chased him to the ends of the cosmos, hunted for his soul husks or even stayed put and enjoyed their spoils of war but instead they blindly went on a suicide errand for a lich and none have been seen since....as for Iuz he is suitably out, maybe shacked up with Zuggy...his empire is a ruin to be picked over by future adventurers and further political drama ensues on how to divide the real estate.
I've no set way that Iuz will get the boot in my campaign, but he will, as will Mak and Ivid. When my party gets to a certain level, they will start becoming movers and shakers in GH.
My main plan somehow involves the magic that keeps him from invading Blackmoor, which I'm making Old Druidic magic that even the Gods won't mess w/. But if a mortal could harness it...
Since Iuz and Vecna are now Gods on the Prime Material Plane, I could easily see the Cult of Vecna infultrating the remains of the Heirarchy and freeing thouse lands from Iuz. When power shift to compensate, the Shield Lands and the Bandit Kingdoms in a rare but temporary alliance. (Oh the beauty of seeing clerics of Olidamara and St. Cutbert working together)
But the deathstroke for Iuz has to come from within. Perhaps a bastard son? Or maybe mother Igwilliv will just come and take Iuz's toys away?
I intend to have the Ur-Flan eventually kill Iuz. To the Ur-Flan, who hate the gods, Iuz is an abomination because he is both a god and is resident on Oerth.
This puts the players in a bind. Do they save Iuz? Do they side with the evil Ur-Flan, at least temporarily? Iuz has caused more misery than almost any other being on Oerth. The Ur-Flan are making a bid to bring their dark ways back to the Flan. There is no good choice. I think the PCs will eventually side with the Ur-Flan, who are not entirely evil in their effect, just in their methodology and ultimate goals. I love it when I can conflict the PCs and then leave them to clean up the mess they, in part, created.
I haven't written it yet but I intend for the PCs to become the Ur-Flan's instrument to destroy Iuz. At least that will be the Ur-Flan's plan. You never know what PCs will do. _________________ GVD
In my campaign, Iuz tricked Canon Hazen of Veluna and others into using the Crook of Rao. It took place in 586 CY as history says, and while the Old One took a loss, as did the other evil empires, Iuz came out on top. You see, the Crook of Rao had been tampered with during it's years of absence after "The Isle of the Ape". Causing the Flight of Fiends also managed to restrict all the other Gods not native to Oerth from having contact with the Prime Material Plane. Essentially, I'm now running a variant of "Midnight" with Iuz taking Izrador's role. The other remaining gods have taken off the kid gloves and have become very active and territorial. Iuz is now so busy that he cannot take direct personal actions in the setting.
Oh darn. In my version he wins... (Hmm, that's not right?)
Its like Gollum and the Ring: both love it and hate it.
Iuz is a great nemesis if not overused or discarded like a cheap villain but also, with so many vile things he has done i felt as DM the time has come to the Cambion finally die. My campaign is centered upon the Old One, beggining with Bucknard plot to steal its soul gem, the intervention of agents of the Horned Society and the priests of Incabulos, the betrayal of Yggwilv (due to some discoveries she made on Return to the Circle of Eight) and the return of Vecna (who IMC never appeared or started Vecna Lives Plot and is still in eye + hand form, possessing the Warduke). The characters will not only have the chance to defeat the Old One but also will have to frustrate of two powerful wizards trying to acchieve immortality or revival and contain the progress of the new Horned Society. _________________ Kneel before Rahu!
I have never played with Iuz much, but here goes...
"The Sultan dreamed of to expanding the Empire; he had for days beyond count. The two savages standing before him offered much, more than they knew.
One claimed to be a representative of the Wolf Tribes one of the Tiger. They offered aid, support and passage. Though they did not know it, they offered their lands as well.
He summoned the master of his navies, who controlled all the Dramidj. They would begin preparations to ferry the armies to Yecha. Then he must visit Tovag Bagu, the priest there should be able to handle the pesky Cambion. Finally, the fools to the East would understand the majesty and power of kingdom such as his, with a history stretching back millenium.
And when it is done, the rebels in Ekbir and Tusmit would submit, with our armies on all sides. "
I worry about this attititude some have that the players to have an effect have to "kill the bad guy" misses the true value of Greyhawk and leads us down the road of many lamentable "Monty Hall" games.
It is sadly due to a DM lack of providing a personified cast of characters, if Iuz is a boring thug blame the DM not Iuz.
Personally I see Greyhawk after the wars awash in possiblities within the new realities...simply put all major and minor powers for that matter are scrambling to rebuild and pick up the pieces...it may not be as glamorous but can be a fountain of ideas.
Does the other nations really want a pinpoint strike against Iuz and deal with the choas of a unleashed blood crazed sadistic priesthood?
Remember the Grey in Greyhawk all is not black hat verses white hats.
I like GVDammerung's ideas about the Ur-Flan and the Old One, but I want to check somethings. By Ur-Flan, do you mean there are living Ur-Flan at the end of the 6th century CY, or that certain people have formed cults and are recovering Ur-Flan lore? Do you mean that there are undead Ur-Flan, who've been untombed and are leading the mortal cultists?
Heraldwrote:
Quote:
But the deathstroke for Iuz has to come from within. Perhaps a bastard son?
I like this idea quite a bit. IMC, the eldest son of Iuz is a bard of the Old Lore. He walks the Northern Flanaess alone, bearing a mighty harp and an old sword of cold iron.
Perhaps this character could be connected to Tiernan's Old Druidic magick in Blackmoor?
I like GVDammerung's ideas about the Ur-Flan and the Old One, but I want to check somethings. By Ur-Flan, do you mean there are living Ur-Flan at the end of the 6th century CY, or that certain people have formed cults and are recovering Ur-Flan lore? Do you mean that there are undead Ur-Flan, who've been untombed and are leading the mortal cultists?
At the end of the 6th Century CY, the Ur-Flan have returned as a force to be reckoned with in the Flanaess.
IMC, the Ur-Flan never really died as a sub-culture of the Flan. The majority of the Flan rejected them. The migrating Oeridians attempted to stamp them out wherever they could be found. Thr rising nation states of the Flanaess completed the process by hounding them mercilessly. The few remaining Ur-Flan retreated to the most remote reaches of the northern Flanaess. They have gradually built up their numbers and power.
What really allowed their return was the humiliation and defeat the Flan suffered after the migrations and most especially after the GH Wars. Iuz' forces all but destroyed the Rovers of the Barrens. Tenh, the only majority Flan state, was carved up, conquered and oppressed.
The Ur-Flan quietly returned and offered power to the kinsmen. Power to survive. Power to exact revenge. Power to regain all that was lost. Power that will allow Flan to hold up their heads again with pride. But power with a cost - the Ur-Flan legacy of human sacrifice and necromancy both red and black.
The Flan being on the bottom saw anything as up. They have largely accepted the Ur-Flan back into Flan society and the Ur-Flan are fulfilling their promise of power, redemption and rejuvenation.
Others nations, so far, see the returned Ur-Flan, if they know of them at all, as "Flan nationalists" who are just using the dread name of a former cult. They do not realize the truth that these Ur-Flan are those Ur-Flan returned and that they pose a very real threat once again.
The Ur-Flan are a cultural survival that now prospers once again.
Because the Ur-Flan reject all gods, Iuz is a particular abomination to them. First, he is divine. Second, he is present on Oerth. Third, he has oppressed the Flan - the Rovers and Tenh. For the Ur-Flan, there is no question. Iuz must die.
Please see my two part Return of the Ur-Flan adventure/resource in the Topics/Adventures section of this site.
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