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The all too familiar Bleh!

 
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abysslin
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:01 am    Post subject: The all too familiar Bleh! Reply with quote

The following are direct quotes from an interview with the author of "The Standing Stone," conducted by a WoTC representative.

You can read the whole interview below, but I bid you; do not waste your time.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/ps/ps20010413a

Quote:
Wizards: The names and sites in The Standing Stone seem pretty familiar.

John: Thatís because the story is set in Greyhawk, as are all of our core adventures. But, like the rest of our adventures, itís entirely portable to any world. I love Greyhawk, but I run my own campaign and this is what I do: I ask, "Where does this fit into my world?" A lot of people do this, and it works well.


Well, that sounds absolutely FANTASTIC! I may have to buy me a 3.x product! Whoo! (Excitement has exploded in me at this point.) Happy

Then ofcourse...The Bleh!

Quote:
Wizards: So, if I have the *Living Greyhawk Gazetteer will I be able to find out more about the area described in The Standing Stone?

John: The adventure doesn't actually mention where in Greyhawk it's set. This tale focuses on an area thatís defined to a lesser extent -- a bit of Greyhawk history akin to the tales of King Arthur. I worked very hard to make it fit in with the established setting, actually revealing some previously hidden bits of Greyhawk history in the process, but also wanted it to fit smoothly into any DM's home campaign. So the Greyhawk bits are hidden. If you know Greyhawk history, you'll see where it fits in; if you don't, you'll just work it into your own setting.


Oh.. I have seen the light. Shame on me for being fooled 2x. How sickening... (and now I am once again, filled with disgust!) Mad

*NOTE: The text for "Living Greyhawk Gazetteer" is actually a hyperlink where one would belive they are being ushered off to learn more about said product and perhaps even Greyhawk...

BUT NO! It leads to this page...

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/list&year=nr&brand=main

A page that doesn't even have the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer on it! But, you can see other "cool" products and learn how to buy them!

Archived, out-of-date, I don't care... Bleh!

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coleman
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marketing is all about putting the public in front of the product. The fact that the products aren't what you thought is meaningless to them. However, I thought when I first read this you were talking about a different module from the 2E days by Bruce Cordell. That had a little Grey in it also. I'll have to dig and find where o' where this module thinks it should be placed Happy
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Nellisir
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't own a 3.x product, Abyss?

And...you do know, the Standing Stone came out, um, 3 years ago, right?

Based on my quickly skimming through the adventure, I'd have to guess it's based somewhere between Veluna and the Gnarly Forest. Pelor shows up a few times, mention is made of ancient invaders coming from "the west and south", and one character of quasi-character was a native warlord battling the invaders (one Saithnar). There's a significant woodland adjoining the human village, large enough to house an (abandoned) grugach village.

It wouldn't be hard to place in GH.

Cheers
Nell.
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abysslin
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You don't own a 3.x product, Abyss?


Unfortuantely, I own Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil.

Would you count The Living Greyhawk Gazetteer as 3.x? I don't, being as it is primarly "statless."

I've just recently decided I should at least give them a "looksee," but it did not take long before I changed my mind about that.

Quote:
And...you do know, the Standing Stone came out, um, 3 years ago, right?


That's not really the point, however I did remark...

Quote:
Archived, out-of-date, I don't care... Bleh!


I'm sure there are other links they could've used that would have been a more permanent solution.

Quote:
It wouldn't be hard to place in GH.


Now, that is my point. I had briefly been mislead to believe perhaps there was indeed a 3.x product that was specifically placed in Greyhawk without any more DM work neccessary, as DM work already occupies a majority of my free time.

It's the usual WoTC Bleh! Get you excited about something and then tear you down. Fortunately for me, I was torn down before actually purchasing the product.
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Cebrion
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A mighty fine interview. I believe the author of "The Standing Stone" has a promising career ahead of him in politics.

Abysslin: I recommend checking out the 3.5e skill system at the very least. It is much better in my opinion than the weapon proficiency and non-weapon proficiency system in 2e. First off, you can gradually develop skills over time; in 2e its an all or nothing type of system- either you can do something(you have the proficiency) or you cannot. The "difficulty class" aspect of skills in 3.5e is also very good. Please disregard this if you have already looked into it.
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Anced_Math
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:57 am    Post subject: Take the best Reply with quote

I too would recommend looking over the 3x systems again Abyssiln. I was an AD&D player, only a bit of 2e, but I find that the 3e system is very satisfying in it's flexibility. I would also guess that it is more satisfying to players because they can develop characters to their own specifications without fears that the DM will quash the idea.

I think that feats are the best addition over 2e, but to each their own. Maybe finding a 3e game to play in would be a good vetting. If you don't like it, well you spent a couple of hours gaming.

As to the core of this thread, I stay constantly amazed at the fact that GH is the core, but the WOTC staff is too timid to place anything anywhere. I have read both praise and complaint of Mr. Mona, but he decided to place something in Istvin, and in my game it will never be the same. And someone running a completely different setting could transport it with no problems.
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IvorMac
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Anced_Math that 3.x adds a good deal of flexibility. I pretty much skipped 2nd edition and played 1st until 3rd came out and gave it a try. I liked it. It allowed me to real get back into D&D and there is much development and expansion that can be done with the system. My only concern is that I think the characters level up a little too fast. So as a DM this is some to keep in check.
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Anced_Math
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 3:25 am    Post subject: Leveling Reply with quote

Ivor's point about leveling is well taken, and there is an excellent thread about just this problem, leveling too fast. Anyone remember the name? I think it was No Xp or something along those lines.

BTW... I made the offer the other day to Abyssilyn, but now I will open it up to anyone. I have upgraded to 3.5 and do not need the 3.0 PHB, DMG, or MM. Anyone who will pay postage can have them.

The only thing I ask is that it be someone who will use them.
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Cymraegmorgan
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have not regretted going this year from AD&D to 3.5.
What I regret is the WotC hints and allusions to Greyhawk instead of just saying, "Here is an adventure module set in Greyhawk. Hope you like it." Is that so hard? Confused
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Blucher
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm extremely unsatisfied with the way WotC is using Greyhawk as the "core" setting. Consistency issues aside, everything is so milquetoast. I've talked to some guys (new players who started after 3.0) who say they don't like Greyhawk because it's so boring and bland. But the Forgotten Realms very cool! Sigh. But I can't really blame them.
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GVDammerung
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cymraegmorgan wrote:
I have not regretted going this year from AD&D to 3.5.
What I regret is the WotC hints and allusions to Greyhawk instead of just saying, "Here is an adventure module set in Greyhawk. Hope you like it." Is that so hard? Confused


It took me awhile to cotton to 3rd Edition. I think it has some advantages over prior editions (a wealth of character options being foremost) but it has offsetting disadvantages (it is complicated with attendant time costs).

I too think that every "old" setting, not just GH, should have gotten a 3rd Edition update; it is the least they could do for longtime fans. I do not count the LGG as 3rd Edition because it was almost "editionless" and certainly did not accomodate changes wrought by 3rd Edition because those were largely yet to come.

GVD
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JasonZavoda
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:24 am    Post subject: Re: Take the best Reply with quote

Anced_Math wrote:
I too would recommend looking over the 3x systems again Abyssiln. I was an AD&D player, only a bit of 2e, but I find that the 3e system is very satisfying in it's flexibility. I would also guess that it is more satisfying to players because they can develop characters to their own specifications without fears that the DM will quash the idea.

I think that feats are the best addition over 2e, but to each their own. Maybe finding a 3e game to play in would be a good vetting. If you don't like it, well you spent a couple of hours gaming.

As to the core of this thread, I stay constantly amazed at the fact that GH is the core, but the WOTC staff is too timid to place anything anywhere. I have read both praise and complaint of Mr. Mona, but he decided to place something in Istvin, and in my game it will never be the same. And someone running a completely different setting could transport it with no problems.


To loosely quote Alan Moore from V for Vendetta

ďDM's shouldn't be afraid of their players. Players should be afraid of their DM's.Ē

I wouldn't DM a campaign with a game system that had mechanics giving players 'Rules' that I, as DM, had to follow or could toss in my face that they controlled and I didn't. If you are new to DMing or just bad at it you can be too controlling and railroad players stepping on what they do control, the choices their characters make. As a DM Im like Santa. The wee players whisper in my ear what they want and I leave in their stockings and under the tree what they are going to get and it is almost never a pony.
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jamesdglick
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Take the best Reply with quote

Anced_Math wrote:
..I think that feats are the best addition over 2e, but to each their own...


-I agree, but that's one of the things that D&D 5 went retro on. Too bad.

Anced_Math wrote:
I find that the 3e system is very satisfying in it's flexibility. I would also guess that it is more satisfying to players because they can develop characters to their own specifications without fears that the DM will quash the idea...


-I like it as a player for that reason, and as a DM because develop your NPCs "just so".

JasonZavoda wrote:
...To loosely quote Alan Moore from V for Vendetta

ďDM's shouldn't be afraid of their players. Players should be afraid of their DM's.Ē...


-Of course, players always the last word. Evil Grin Laughing
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