Username Password
   or Create an Account
HomeForumsFAQArticlesReviewsDownloadsLinksTop 20Feedback
 Features
 
Greyhawk Wiki

 
Canonfire :: View topic - A "Familiar" Series of Questions
A "Familiar" Series of Questions

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Canonfire Forum Index -> Greyhawk- AD&D 2nd Edition
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Lanthorn
GreySage


Joined: Sep 09, 2009
Posts: 2430
Location: SW WA state (Highvale)

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:54 pm    Post subject: A "Familiar" Series of Questions Reply with quote

This thread pertains to mage familiars. Here goes:

1) The spell description states that familiars have unnaturally long lifespans due to the connection between wizard and familiar. However, to my knowledge, it does not specify just how LONG this extension lasts.

Ideas, suggestions? What about familiars for gnomish, half-elven, or elven mages, all of whom have longer lifespans than human mages?

2) What happens to the mage when the familiar finally dies from natural causes? Does the mage still have to roll System Shock or perish?

3) A mage (with a familiar) is turned to stone (by spell, gaze attack, whatever). What happens to the familiar? After all, the mage is neither dead (if made System Shock roll) nor alive.

I would contest the familiar has to make a System Shock roll, too, in order to survive the temporary breaking (or alteration) of the link. However, is the familiar now 'free' of the magic and turns wild? Or is the link still, somehow, intact, and the familiar now suffers a 1 hp loss per day until the mage returns back to his/her living state?

4) A mage (with a familiar) suffers an aging attack (ex: from a ghost's attack). What happens to the familiar? Does the familiar age, too? The aged mage (alliteration intended!), who now has to make a System Shock roll, is still linked to the familiar. Doesn't the familiar likewise have to make a roll???

yes, so many questions...

Confused

-Lanthorn, Endless Inquisitor
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cebrion
Black Hand of Oblivion
Black Hand of Oblivion


Joined: Feb 16, 2003
Posts: 3733
Location: So. Cal

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The could be something...out there...somewhere...on familiars, for 2E. I justdon';twnt to look right now. Laughing For what it is worth, my 2 cents:

The "unnaturally long" lifespan of a familiar mirrors that of its master (i.e. it lives as long as its master does). Why?

Happy

(Yes, it is hard to imagine so much awesome could be encapsulated in one gif, but it has! Laughing)

Question number 2 therefore does not apply. They both naturally age and die at the same time, unless some sort of magical link transfer takes place. An aged wizard might magically transfer his familiar link (via a unique spell) to an apprentice for a period of time, though this seems most suitable for a story purpose.

"I have helped you all that I can, young master, but now you must stand on your own, and I must make my own journey into the great beyond as our master already has. Good luck to you." The venerable lemur familiar Akelio then closed his giant wisdom-filled eyes one last time, and breathed his last. Cry

As to 3, I would say the familiar has to make system shock roll, though it uses its own or its master's, whichever is better. You may say that, in the case of something that outright kills the master (finger of death, disintegration, etc.), the familiar that does makes its system shock roll will lose a good measure of its resilience, and begin to age a bit more quickly (but not as quickly as a regular animal of its type), its life force link having been removed, but still be more than a regular animal of its type (EDIT: or you can have it lose 1 hp per day as usual and die). If the master is somehow revived though, the familiar should slowly become reinvigorated until it is recovered to its normal state (EDIT: if it still lives).

Familiars shouldn't just turn wild/feral though, as they are not regular animals. You might have them sort of become more like a normal animal of their type, meaning they could sort of lose a sense of themselves to some degree, but that could be activated again if a new wizard were to come into the area and cast a find familiar spell and, as such, newly acquire that same familiar, linking it to a new master. You could use this opportunity as story element similar to the example above (i.e. imparting guidance indirectly, excepting the familiar wouldn't soon croak), or go with something a bit different, depending on the mood/tone of your campaign...

"Oh, you are nothing like my previous master! She was smart. She was beautiful. She fed me REAL food. What's this garbage you feed me? Parsley! PARSLEY!"

"But I thought rabbits liked pars..."

"Parsley is a garnish, you idiot! A GARNISH!!! Ever hear of *ROOT VEGETABLES*?! You know, carrots, turnips, and similar things?"

"I will endeavor to fill the larder more appropriately from now on."

"Yes, you do that! No rutabagas though. They make me a bit...gassy."

"Duly noted."


Wink

As to number 4, I would say the familiar ages *proportionally* with its master, but it would seem both might need to make a system shock roll. Depends on how tough you want to be on those with familiars, so maybe you just have one roll. Your call.
_________________
- Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -


Last edited by Cebrion on Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:30 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lanthorn
GreySage


Joined: Sep 09, 2009
Posts: 2430
Location: SW WA state (Highvale)

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cebrion, thank you for your response. I very much enjoyed your whimsical reply! Quite amusing.

So, if the familiar has an enhanced longevity proportional to the race of the 'master' wizard, basically, a mage gets only one familiar in his/her life time (unless the familiar dies a violent death)...

...and elven familiars potentially live for decades, maybe a century, or so?

-Lanthorn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cebrion
Black Hand of Oblivion
Black Hand of Oblivion


Joined: Feb 16, 2003
Posts: 3733
Location: So. Cal

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean the physical health of the familiar is proportional to its relative age. If an elven master is elderly (i.e. hundreds of years old), the familiar will look (and physically be) equivalent to an elderly animal of its type. It will live as long as its master unless something prematurely ends its life.
_________________
- Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BlueWitch
Adept Greytalker


Joined: Mar 05, 2007
Posts: 290
Location: The Pomarj

PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cebrion wrote:
I mean the physical health of the familiar is proportional to its relative age.


I think I like this. It fits the idea that the familiar and wizard bond, in my opinion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dark_Lord_Galen
Paladin
Paladin


Joined: Sep 07, 2011
Posts: 828
Location: Houston Texas

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks so much Brian... as I sit here coffee, in hand, trying to acclimate to IMO, the total waste of the whole Daylight Savings plan.....

And then it happens, there is this "perfect moment", beautify representing that ole analogy
"a picture speaks a thousand words" ....
The "magic" brought a smile to this old grunard's face Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cebrion
Black Hand of Oblivion
Black Hand of Oblivion


Joined: Feb 16, 2003
Posts: 3733
Location: So. Cal

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to drag the thread too off topic, but topically speaking it is no doubt one of the most perfect gifs ever created. It couldn't be any better in my opinion, and I can't help but smile a little bit every time I see it. It is based on a clip of Shia Lebouf from an SNL skit called "Its A Match" from 2008, but this is the "enhanced" version, which I think really does make it all the more better. Happy

Links:

http://imgur.com/gallery/YsbKHg1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8kMlxkTlbQ

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/its-a-match/n12242

...and now back to our regularly scheduled programming - Familiars. Cool

I am a big proponent of sympathetic magic, and that usually influences my opinion on most things magical. With wizards and their familiars we have not just two companions, but two companions who are linked body and soul. That can be played up in many ways, and not just in crunchy rules ways, but also in fluffy presentation ways. One example of the latter would be to have the master and familiar sort of look like one another. I'm sure most of you have at one time or another seen a picture of a pet and owner that resembled one another. A Player/DM could use that, or instead might say that they don't specifically look alike, but over time develop similar mannerisms/habits. It is just window dressing for sure, but it is fun window dressing. Crunchy-wise, you might choose to have a familiar gain the statistics bonuses (and penalties) that their master does due to aging, because a venerable mongoose is probably not going to be scragging cobras like it once was able to, but it surely will be far smarter and wiser than a young mongoose familiar.

One might also have the master and familiar be able to feel each others' pain, emotions, etc. - a really deep and all-encompassing link. Or one could go the other way and treat the link as a more superficial thing where the familiar is viewed more as a useful tool; sort of a homonculus with more brains/capabilities, but with no really deep connection so far as the master-familiar link is concerned.
_________________
- Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lanthorn
GreySage


Joined: Sep 09, 2009
Posts: 2430
Location: SW WA state (Highvale)

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another question has popped up (of course).

Say that the familiar is severed from its master and is suffering the 1 hp per day loss that comes with that consequence.

Can this damage be healed magically? Or is the loss beyond curative power, and only re-establishment of the link permits such damage from being healed thereafter?

-Lanthorn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lanthorn
GreySage


Joined: Sep 09, 2009
Posts: 2430
Location: SW WA state (Highvale)

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another question for you all (and still hoping for an answer to the query listed above):

If the familiar is aged by a spell effect, does the linked wizard likewise suffer the same fate?

I would think so.

-Lanthorn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cebrion
Black Hand of Oblivion
Black Hand of Oblivion


Joined: Feb 16, 2003
Posts: 3733
Location: So. Cal

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, the wizard is not aged. The master and familiar are linked, but not that linked.The wizard will just potentially have a decrepit (or even dead) familiar, depending on how much it was aged. Though the wizard may not be aged, if the familiar is aged beyond its master's normal lifespan it would die, as that age is all the link allows for so far as the familiar's extended lifespan goes.

As to the 1hp damage per day, I'd say it could be healed magically. It is already easy enough to lose a familiar. I see no need to make it easier for a wizard to lose a familiar and suffer all the downsides that entails.

Just my opinions.
_________________
- Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Canonfire Forum Index -> Greyhawk- AD&D 2nd Edition All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Canonfire phpBB2 theme by Jakob Persson (http://www.eddingschronicles.com).
Powered by phpBB © 2001 phpBB Group
All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Stone textures by Patty Herford
Ported for PHP-Nuke by nukemods.com
Forums ©


Canonfire! is a production of the Thursday Group in assocation with GREYtalk and Canonfire! Enterprises

Contact the Webmaster.  Long Live Spidasa!

PHP-Nuke Copyright © 2005 by Francisco Burzi. This is free software, and you may redistribute it under the GPL. PHP-Nuke comes with absolutely no warranty, for details, see the license.
Page Generation: 0.28 Seconds