Of all the entries in The Complete Adventurer, the Fochlucan Lyrist gives me the most food for thought. While I like how this prestige class was presented, it definitely gave me some ideas for a revised system of bardic college prestige classes and a system of advancement through the various colleges through the form of a prestige class for each, and with the option to advance solely within a single college as well.
I would recommend that these prestige classes be of the 10-level variety and set up similar to the Dragonlance Knights of Solamnia, such that members of a lower college could progress to a higher college. In fact, to gain admittance to a higher collegge would require having at least one level in each lower college. A character might not need to have gained all ten levels in a lower college prestige class to advance to the next. The latter levels of each college would grant better abilities, but ones tied to the emphasis of the college, while becoming a member of the highest bardic college prestige class would require some experience in all of the lower colleges to even be eligible for entry.
As per Tamerlain's fine “Bardic Colleges and Other Bardic Treasures” article, there are a total of 8 bardic colleges (I’ll go with him on this as I have no idea where my 1e PH is lurking). To be eligible for entry into the highest level bardic college(Ollamh), a candidate would have to gain at least one level in each of the other seven bardic college prestige classes- Ollaire, Fochloc, MacFuirmidh, Dos, Cana, Cli, and Anruth. To offset such a rigid structure of advancement, the Ollamh bard would have access to some very powerful abilities as befits a character of the minimum level to even be a member of such a prestigious institution.
To even be eligible for the first college, I’d set the prerequisites at 5th or 6th level. These prerequisites would be farilry lenient as to allow players the option for multi-classing as a fighter/rogue/ bard as per the OD&D bard class. At the very minimum, a 10th level Ollamh bard will usually have acquired about a total of 23 class levels, which nicely tops out at/near the old school bard level maximum and is within the realm of “epic” status . Epic level Ollamh bards should be learning things on par with hierophant druids.
An interesting method of varying bardic spells from the normal arcan variety would be to allow bard characters to swap out a single spell or gain one from a spell list from each bardic college for every level they gain within that college. Each bardic college would favor a certain type of magic and have its own spell list, though some spells they might all have in common. The more levels one gains in the bardic colleges, the more spells they get to swap out from the list. Higher levels also allow a bard to swap higher level spells within the current or any prior bardic college spell lists. Bardic College prestige class levels would stack with any prior bard class levels for purposes of determining how many spells could be swapped and of what levels. For example, Tamerlain is a B6/ Ollaire1/ Fochloc1/ MacFuirmidh1/ Dos1/ Cana1/ Cli1/ Anruth1/ Ollamh3, with a total of 16 bardic levels of various types. Among bardic circles he is somewhat of a badass. His 16 bardic levels allow him to have swapped out up to sixteen of his original arcane bard spells for spells from the various bardic college lists, which heavily favor the “Old Lore” of the druids. A bard of 16th level only knows a total of 23 spells (and 6 cantrips), so all but seven of them could be swapped for “Old Lore” bardic college spells. I would not institute cantrip/orison swaps and would instead grant one bonus druid orison to the bard’s known spells for every level of advancement through the bardic colleges, as orisons are such minor spells in the first place. With 13+ druid orisons available from various sources, a college bard would have to be very high level indeed to have them all(at least 19+!) so I do not see this as problematical.
It would be some interesting work to peg down the various favored abilities of the bardic college prestige class levels and the spells each college favors. This project would cover a total of 8 prestige classes, one for each bardic college, for a total of 80 levels!
I hope my explanation of things is understandable. Am I crazy, or does this idea intrigue anybody else???
I think it is an interesting idea. I think you touch upon "the Grail" of 3E design, or 4E - how to getback the Bard from 1E. I have yet to see a fully set out solution that satisfies. I confess to few ideas of my own on the topic but read others' ideas with avid interest. 1E Bard, we miss you!
First, a prestige class cannot have a specific class or level as a requirement. This is very specific in the rules ofr generating them. They may have other requirements that strongly encourage specific class combinations or, in the case of a unique class ability, indirectly require a certain class/level combination, but "2 levels of paladin" or the like is not acceptable. (That the designers of the new Dragonlance setting blatantly ignored when they didn't have to this speaks volumes about their commitment to a quality product.)
Second, making a separate prestige class for each college seems counter to the tone of the setting, YMMV. There are, IIRC, about a dozen named epic-level characters in 3E/3.5. Of the Circle of Eight's past and present members, only 3 hold this status, Mordenkainen, Bigby and Rary IIRC. So, with 7 colleges, that's 70+ levels to complete them all and become a Magna Alumnae? Even if one must only gain 2 or 3 levels per college to qualify for the next and the first requiring roughly 5 level to meet all the requirements, that's still 19 to 26 levels.
Third, and this is my personal interpretation, the bard naturally progresses through the colleges without any game mechanic other than level advancement. But, that's just me.
And if anyone wants to educate me as to how, I will post my D&D3E version of the AD&D bard that I wrote a couple of years ago here.
Firstly, I know about class levels not being a requirement for prestige classes, but I'd rather not have to say "you need 5 ranks of skill x" all the time, when having five ranks in any skill means that a character must have at least 2 class levels to get that number of ranks. Required levels are built into Prestige class requirements. They are left open so that each player can choose how they personally want to acquire those prerequisite skills and abilities, and how many levels they want to gain in whatever classes to do it. That being said, certain prestige classes naturally lead out of specific classes.
For example, A Radiant Servant of Pelor is a divine spell caster and worshiper of Pelor, which means that the character must have at least 1 level in the Cleric class, and at least 6 class levels in total to achieve the greatest requirement(knowledge: religion 9) to even qualify for taking a level as a Radiant Servant of Pelor.
Rather than run down the laundry list of requirements (which I have not even though out yet), I simply listed the general level at which the requirements would most likely be met, and by which class or class combination they would be most easily met by.
Design and presentation in a finished format are two related, but entirely different things.
Other than that, yes the sheaf of paper needed to elucidate on each of the bardic colleges would be rather hefty. This psychotic idea mainly stemmed from the 10-level prestige class on the Fochlucan Lyrist(hence the title of the thread), and a proposition to make such a 10-level specialized prestige class for each bardic college. Then I went further by tying them all together, such that a progression through the colleges, learning a bit of the specialties of each, might enable the highest ranking bardic college to be entered.
Is this an over thought idea? Perhaps. Is it interesting? I think so.
I sometimes think I would much rather have a variant base Bard class of 20 levels, which goes along with the 3.5 class format anyways. At other times I think back on the old “dual-classing” method of becoming a Bard and thinking of ways that "Old Bard" feel could be represented in 3.5e.
One of the purposes of developing each bardic college further was to pin down each college's specialty, if any, as a 10 level prestige class(similar to the Fochlucan Lyrist), and see if it could be applied to a grouping of prestige class levels that culminated with the Ollamh College Bard.
That might more succinctly explain the purpose of this post, and how it might be further elaborated upon.
By the way callmeAndydammit, please post your 3e version of the "old skool" bard here.
Thanks. _________________ - Moderator/Admin (in some areas)/Member -
Far more than simple performers or historians, Bards of the Old Lore are the living repositories of the legends, histories, and accumulated knowledge of the Flan peoples. It is their destiny to travel the Oerth seeking the deeds of heroes and lore that should not be forgotten.
Bards of the Old Lore are often drawn from those adventurous enough to be worthy of song themselves. The order knows that the path it walks is a dangerous one. It would not allow those unprepared to walk it. To this end, probationers to the Colleges of the Old Lore must demonstrate their skills in defending themselves both by knowing the blade and when not to use it.
Note: In the following class description, the term bard refers specifically to Bards of the Old Lore and not to the bard class of the PHB.
Hit Die: d6
Requirements
Alignment: any neutral combination; lawful neutral, neutral good, etc.
Race: Human or half-elf
Base Attack Bonus: +6
Hide: 8 ranks
Move Silently: 8 ranks
Climb: 4 ranks
Perform: 4 ranks (must include a stringed instrument)
Innuendo: 4 ranks
Speak Language: Must speak at least 3 languages
Knowledge (Religion): 2 ranks
Feats: any four from the list available to fighters as bonus. These feats need not have been earned as a fighter, but they must appear on that list.
Special: Evasion, Sneak Attack, and Uncanny Dodge class abilities. Must be accepted for training. Must own a stringed instrument.
Class Skills
The bard’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Alchemy (Int), Animal Empathy (Cha, Exclusive), Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int, Exclusive), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Intuit Direction (Wis), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills taken separately, Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Pick Pocket (Dex), Profession (Wis), Scry (Int, Exclusive), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha), Wilderness Lore (Wis). See chapter four of the Player’s Handbook for skill descriptions.
Skill points at additional levels: 6 + Int modifier
Class Features
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Bards are proficient with all types (including exotic) of the following weapons: club, dagger, dart, javelin, scimitar, sling, spear, and staff. They are also proficient with the bastard sword, long sword and short sword. Bards are proficient with light armor but not with shields. Note that armor check penalties for armor heavier than leather apply to the skills Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Pick Pocket, and Tumble. Also, Swim checks suffer a –1 penalty for every 5 pounds of armor and equipment carried.
Spells: Bards cast divine spells according to Table 1: The Bard of the Old Lore. Bards may prepare and cast any spell on the druid’s spell list (page 166 of the PHB) provided they can cast spells of that level. They prepare and cast spells the way a cleric does (though they cannot lose a prepared spell to cast a cure spell in its place.) Their caster level is equal to their class level to a maximum of twelfth level. At 16th level, their caster level rises to 13th. The bard must have a wisdom score of at least 10 + the spell’s level to prepare and cast it. The save DC is 10 + the spell’s level + the bard’s wisdom modifier. Bonus spells are based on wisdom (table 1-1, pg 8, PHB.)
College: College is an important distinction to bards; they will not willingly associate with a bard of a lesser college. The exceptions are the Magna Alumnae, who will happily aid (by advice and suggestion) any bard of any level.
Lawful, chaotic, good and evil spells: Bards cannot cast spells of an alignment opposed to their own.
Bonus Languages: Bards speak Druidic. This secret language is known only to the druidic cults and their members are forbidden to teach it to outsiders. Druidic has its own alphabet. Bards also learn a new language at every level after first. Bards normally have no restrictions when choosing languages though the DM may prohibit them from learning exceptionally obscure languages until they have heard it once.
Bardic Lore: (As the bard ability from the PHB)
Additionally, once per item as a spell-like ability, a bard may make this check and also receive information as if casting an identify spell (page 216, PHB). This will likely lead to results such as, “This is the sword of the Hessian, known to ride his horse hard into battle, lopping off heads as he goes,” (regular information from the check,) and “the sword is a +3 weapon,” (the result of the identify spell.) The idea is the player can infer that the weapon definitely has additional abilities, in this case obvious possibilities are vorpal and great cleave.
Bards may also, once per day as a spell-like ability, make a bardic lore check and receive information as if casting a legend lore spell (page 219, PHB). The bardic lore check will treat rumors as detailed information for the purposes of determining the completeness of the lore gained as outlined in the spell description.
Bardic Music: (As the bard ability from the PHB, except level requirements do not apply, only minimum Perform ranks.)
Additionally, some magic items have increased efficacy when used by the bard:
· Drums of Panic (add half the bard’s level to the DC to save)
· Horn of Blasting (blasts do 150% damage)
· Lyre of Building (effects are doubled)
· Pipes of the Sewers (twice the rats are summoned in half the usual time)
Druid: Bards of the Old Lore are considered druids whenever the distinction is called for. Any levels they have in another druid class stack for these purposes. Their level for this purpose is equal to their caster level.
Nature Sense: Bards can identify plants and animals (their species and special traits) with perfect accuracy. He can tell whether water is safe to drink or dangerous (polluted, poisoned, or otherwise unfit for consumption.)
Woodland Stride: At 2nd level, bards may move through natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain at normal speed and without suffering damage or other impairment. However, thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that are enchanted or magically manipulated to impede motion still affect the bard.
Trackless Step: At 3rd level, bards leave no trail in natural surroundings and cannot be tracked.
Resist Nature’s Lure: At 4th level, bards gain a +4 bonus on saving throws against the spell-like abilities of feys.
Wild Shape: At 5th level, bards gain the spell-like ability to polymorph self into a Small or Medium-size animal (but not a dire animal) and back again once per day (see the polymorph self spell, page 237, PHB.) Unlike the standard use of the spell, however, a bard may only adopt one form. As stated in the spell description, a bard regains hit points as if having rested for a day. Note: the creatures available include some giant animals but not supernatural beasts. A bard may wild shape into a dog or giant lizard, for example, but not into an owlbear. A bard does not risk the standard penalty for being disoriented while in this wild shape (see polymorph other spell, page 236, PHB.)
A bard can use this ability more times per day at 6th, 7th, and 10th level, as noted on Table 1: The Bard of the Old Lore. In addition, a bard gains the ability to take the shape of a Large animal at 8th level and a Tiny animal at 11th level. At 12th level, they can take the form of a dire animal.
Venom Immunity: At ninth level, the bard gains immunity to all organic poisons, including monster venoms but not mineral poisons or poison gas.
A Thousand Faces: At 16th level, bards gain the supernatural ability to change appearance at will, as if using the spell alter self (p 172, PHB.)
Code of Conduct: A bard of the Old Lore will never serve as a cohort for longer than one to four months. As their people’s historians and keepers of knowledge they must continue seeking new songs and stories of heroics. They are also unable to employ cohorts other than humans, elves and half-elves with druid, fighter or rogue levels. Only bards of 16th level, the Magna Alumnae, may settle down and construct a stronghold of any sort.
Last edited by callmeAndydammit on Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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