In our real world, many cultures revered the moon and sun as gods.
In Greyhawk, the gods are no less personified because they are given names. You've got Luna and her Handmaiden, Celene; and you've got the sun which I think is called Sol (am I making that up?).
Anyway, in a world full of gods, and with humankind's natural inclination to worship the moon (usually a female) and the sun (usually a male), shouldn't the moons and sun of Oerth be gods?
I know you've got gods "to do with" the sun and moon, but they are never described as "being" the sun/moon.
What say you folks? Coz this has come up in my game and I'm struggling to explain why the moon/sun ain't gods.
Well, there are Pelor for the Flan pantheon, Pholtus as Oeridian god of sun and moon, Nola for the Touv, Sehanine for the Seldarine...
I think it's more than enough...
Ancient societies worshiped the sun and moon in the absence of more compelling choices.
Clerics that worship Pholtus get spells and other benefits, which likewise are bestowed upon his worshippers. By contrast, those that decide to worship the sun (which, as in real life, is not a god) get nothing.
Inhabitants of the Flanaess would figure things out pretty quickly, methinks :)
Excellent post, Baggins. I completely agree with your thoughts.
I think Pelor and a Sun god are pretty much, or could be, one and the same.
I think Luna and Celene are wide open for development, however. Greyhawk lacks a lunar deity(ies) with the prominence you would think would be accorded such an astronomical constant.
With just a minor adjustment to the Ogre's preferred religion, you could have an entire region of the race devoted to the celestial bodies solely on the power of Ogremeet.
I'm actually finding myself quite interested in that approach, and since I haven't introduced the locale into my campaign as of yet, I may very well change it up some. _________________ Kneel before me, or you shall be KNELT!
Last edited by abysslin on Thu Jan 13, 2005 8:04 am; edited 2 times in total
I haven't found a need to have the sun and moons as deities themselves but there is no reason why you couldnt. Much Like Beory IS the Oerth but has many deities of nature as well there could feasibly be a Sun Father and then a selection of sun deities. However, the Oerth I think is more fitting to be personified as the people have a much closer and intimate bond with her and sometimes I think that it is this close and intimate interaction that maybe brought sentience to Oerth in the form of Beory.
The Moons and Sun are much more distant so it seems more appropriate that they are just planets but planets who have deities associated with them. In Greek mythology Helios the Sun didn't play a very direct role in most myths but was more just the father of various lesser gods and beings such as Circe and Aeaetes. I believe he does directly interfere to save his grand-daughter Medea in her eponymous play.
My point is I think that if you wish to deify the Sun and Moon then that is fine but they should play no greater role than they currently do...i.e: practically none. Perhaps they were once active deities who have grown idle or slumber in the wake of the newer gods. Pelor would be much like Apollo is to Helios.
THere seem to be plenty of sundeities...Pelor, Lydia, Pholtus but no real moon deities other than Sehanine. In my campaign I have made Ehlonna a borderline intermediate / greater goddess and added the moon to her portfolio where she replaces Sehanine as the elven goddess. She is very much like Artemis. I am tempted to add the moon to Llerg's portfolio and make him the patron god of were creatures although Ehlonna is the patroness of good lycanthropes.
I read a nice creation myth featuring Beory and Nerull in one of the Oerth Journals but can't find it. Could someone please tell me which Oerth Journal this was? I think it was in an article about Druids or Old-School Bards?
I read a nice creation myth featuring Beory and Nerull in one of the Oerth Journals but can't find it. Could someone please tell me which Oerth Journal this was? I think it was in an article about Druids or Old-School Bards?
Ah, it's in Oerth Journal 15.
Paul J. Stormberg writes:
". . . Beory (Oerth) had two husbands - the brothers Pelor
(Sol, Light/Day) and Nerull (Dark/Night). Although she desired
to take Pelor as her husband, Beory could not wed him without
inciting the jealousy of his brother Nerull. Thus, she married both,
hoping to achieve a peaceful balance between the brothers. Her
only stipulation was that she would not bear children for Nerull.
The brothers agreed and thus Beory began her eternal wedding
dance, dividing her time equally between Pelor and Nerull. To the
Flannae this represents the eternal cycle of night and day.
After a time, Beory and Pelor begat Rao, Berei, Allitur, Zodal, Obadhai
(the five* “wandering stars”), and all living plants and animals
of Oerth, including the Flannae. Using trickery, Nerull sired two
daughters by Beory, Luna (Mistress, The Great Moon) and Celene
(Handmaiden)."
So I say, if Beory (the Oerth) is a god and is sisters to Luna and Celene, then it stands to reason that the latter two are also gods!
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