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Keep on the Borderlands

 
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EltonJ
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Joined: Oct 29, 2018
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:07 am    Post subject: Keep on the Borderlands Reply with quote

I have Return to the Keep on the Borderlands and I plan to run it with my online group on the Paizo forums. The adventure sets the Keep and the Caves of Chaos in the Yeomanry. I was wondering if you have other ideas on where the Keep is located.
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jamesdglick
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't bought the Return, yet. I hear a lot of it is problematic.

I put the keep just east of the meeting of the Jewel and the Handmaiden (just turn the map 90 degrees). The geography also fits in nicely with the Dungeon Magazine adventure "Wedding Bells"; just add the keep. ;)

I think Sir X has it in the Vesve.
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Raymond
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:27 pm    Post subject: Keep Reply with quote

Kendall Keep is listed in Yeomanry on the maps found at:

https://ghmaps.net/

I think that's interesting because Gygax seems to have said he didn't consider it a Greyhawk-specific module yet he recommended placement by Pomarj. Sorry, I didn't record my source.
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JasonZavoda
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my campaign the Keep is a standard template for borderland forts. In Geoff at least 3 were destroyed during the Giant invasions and one is such a haunted locale that it keeps reliving the week of its destruction over and over again. I pull out the Keep anywhere in hill or mountainous territory across the Flanaess
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vestcoat
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Russ Taylor's old "repair" article is required reading for Return to the Keep on the Borderlands:
https://web.archive.org/web/20051230043312/http://www.cmc.net:80/~rtaylor/greyhawk/repair.txt

Author John D. Rateliff went on record that he never intended it to be a GH adventure or knew WotC was going to brand it as such, which explains many of its problems fitting into GH.

RttKotB also ropes Quesqueton into the vicinity. Mike Carr intended Quesqueton for Rockegg Pass north of Tenh, not the Yeomanry. IMC, both B1 & B2 are there.

Of course, Ulek or the Pomarj are obvious choices for B2 and fans have long played the module before, during, or after Gygax's other intro scenario, T1. If you want a solid plotline to tie B2 to the ToEE, check out Kuntz' comments in WG8:
https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=47909&p=1121318#p1128482
The Temple stirs up humanoids in the Pomarj (including the Caves of Chaos), to raid Ulek and Celene and draw attention away from the North.

Note that the KotB GH novel is completely generic and only mentions two GH gods, no locations.
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Lanthorn
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am planning to use this module in a future campaign and intend to place it off in the Cairn Hills in the border area between Greyhawk City and Duchy of Urnst, likely above the Mistmarsh, or just east of it, along the Urnst Trail.

-Lanthorn
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jamesdglick
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vestcoat wrote:

...Note that the KotB GH novel is completely generic and only mentions two GH gods, no locations.


-IIRC, one of the characters was a Wolf Nomad.

EDIT: "Wedding Bells" adventure, near the Handmaiden & the Jewel rivers:

http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=71937#71937
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SirXaris
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Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jamesdglick wrote:
I think Sir X has it in the Vesve.


That, I do! It fits nicely near the headwaters of the Deepstil River on its northern bank. There was a map in one of the Oerth Journals, I think, showing that the Wood Elven kingdom in the Vesve claims the lands up to the south bank, but the north bank is kind of a no-man's land. The road runs west to Perrenland and the High Vale and east, then north, to Eru Tovar.

I like adventures to have believable reasons for being, so the clerics in the caves are easily explained as followers of Iuz who have infiltrated that far west and are trying to organize the humanoids to make guerrilla raids against the goodly folk living out there.

Here is a link to the campaign blog describing it in detail, which may be found in the Campaign Journals and General Online Play forum here on Canonfire!
http://www.canonfire.com/cf/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5218

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Last edited by SirXaris on Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:56 am; edited 2 times in total
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SirXaris
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, double post. Neutral

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EltonJ
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's alright. The facebook group was also lively with suggestions as to where to put Return as well as B2. I guess Wizards had the adventure put into Greyhawk to stir up interest in Greyhawk.
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ragnar
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I'm finishing up B1 with my new group in the rift Canyon, B2 seems like the perfect transition. However, I'm also going to take the keep and place it in the rift Canyon itself. The caves will be in a completely different place, and eventually the party will make it to the keep which has been completely overthrown and taken over by gnolls. In this version, their job will be to get rid of the gnolls and allow the keep to be resettled.

The return to the keep fussing to be a little odd, and I'm not really sure I like the caves. I'll probably use the original. I haven't decided yet, and I'll probably repopulate it with totally different things anyways. I just can't in good conscience put another helpless woman captive that turns out to be a Medusa in there!
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Raymond
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:44 pm    Post subject: B1 and B2 Placement Reply with quote

The topography doesn't seem right to have B1 where it's designated in the Return map. It makes more sense to me that somewhere on that map is a portal to B1. I like the idea of placing B1 where Ratik, Tenh, and Pale sort of meet.
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Rakhir
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back in the day I used to place the keep near the Pomarj & Suss, I now have it bordering Veluna & Verbobonc, where the south edge of the forest meets the Kron Hills.

After fussing with the Return and Repair of, the best choice was to go with the original! Those who had played it before had many years for their memories to fade, besides no-one ever explored beyond the first few caves before moving on to something else. . .

My only two takeaways from the Return module were the name Kendall Keep, and the addition of a stream flowing down the center of the Caves area, a nice feature to indicate 0 elevation. An important reminder (to me at least) that the 1st/central line of elevation on the map is 25 feet up; the bottom was often perceived as a flat plane.

My one takeaway from the Repair document was to increase the scale of the area map, although I use 6 squares = 1 mile and redrew the map to maintain relative size of some features.
ragnar wrote:
I just can't in good conscience put another helpless woman captive that turns out to be a Medusa in there!
My group just encountered the medusa for the first time and were thoroughly shocked and surprised!
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