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    Canonfire :: View topic - Ghosts of Saltmarsh year?
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    Ghosts of Saltmarsh year?
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Oct 09, 2014
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    Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:46 am  
    Ghosts of Saltmarsh year?

    So I just got Ghosts of Saltmarsh, and reading through it the adventures seem fairly timeline neutral as far Greyhawk goes. However, some posters on this forum have indicated that the adventures appear to take place back in 576.

    Not having read the majority of the Living Greyhawk modules, I was wondering what hallmarks indicate that? Is it the political situation in Keoland? The status of the Sea Princes?
    Encyclopedia Greyhawkaniac

    Joined: May 29, 2018
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    Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:51 pm  
    Re: Ghosts of Saltmarsh year?

    mindseye wrote:
    So I just got Ghosts of Saltmarsh, and reading through it the adventures seem fairly timeline neutral as far Greyhawk goes. However, some posters on this forum have indicated that the adventures appear to take place back in 576.

    Not having read the majority of the Living Greyhawk modules, I was wondering what hallmarks indicate that? Is it the political situation in Keoland? The status of the Sea Princes?


    It is set at the same time as the original 576cy adventures. But the setting appears pre-wars and pre-Scarlet Brothwrhood supplement.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:55 am  

    There is an active merchant from Iuz trading in Saltmarsh. That, as well as the secretive nature of the Scarlet Brotherhood, places it squarely pre-Greyhawk Wars. I agree with the adventure's CY 576 timeframe.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:09 pm  

    So basically, Iuz isn't in open warfare with anyone, and the Scarlet Brotherhood isn't exerting direct military control over the sea princes and such?


    I've always been confused by Iuz. How do the nations of Good (tm) not go rushing in and dismantling him in a crusade type action. Then I remember. It's Greyhawk. There really aren't any nations of Good (tm) and then there's the demon forces. If he has goods they want, someone will trade with him. Additionally, Graz'zt won't give him enough to actually conquer Oerth, but the are definitely enough to keep anyone from invading.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:16 pm  

    Exactly.

    As for the nations of Good (tm): there's an interview with Gary Gygax in Oerth Journal #12 in which he reveals that in his timeline, Nyrond was behind the kidnapping of Prince Thrommel of Furyondy. That always hammers home the realpolitik of Greyhawk's states to me.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:04 pm  

    I will look that up immediately! :O I'm feeling that I have my rose colored glasses on when I look at Oerth. Fascinating.
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 29, 2006
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    From: Dantredun, MN

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    Tue Dec 24, 2019 5:01 pm  

    mindseye wrote:

    I've always been confused by Iuz. How do the nations of Good (tm) not go rushing in and dismantling him in a crusade type action. Then I remember. It's Greyhawk. There really aren't any nations of Good (tm) and then there's the demon forces. If he has goods they want, someone will trade with him. Additionally, Graz'zt won't give him enough to actually conquer Oerth, but the are definitely enough to keep anyone from invading.

    MANY reasons have been given for this:
    1) Iuz kept a low profile pre-Wars/pre-Dragon news articles. Most obvious is his involvement with the ToEE as a ruse to divert attention to the south.
    2) He returned after a long string of imposters. To southern lords, tales of Iuz's reappearance sounded like the boy crying wolf.
    3) His ascension and priesthood were new. Iuz wasn't a demigod when imprisoned. Word may have spread of his return, but he wasn't wearing a neon "DEMIGOD" sign.
    4) Horned Society was still the big threat. They had taken Iuz's old capital and half his realm. Iuz's diminished kingdom didn't share a border with any civilized lands.
    5) Good was divided. In WGR4 Marklands, it's clear nobles in southern Furyondy aren't concerned with the north. Nyrond was watching the Great Kingdom. Keoland was concerned with giants, slavers, the Pomarj, and Sea Princes. Sheild Lands couldn't see past the Horned Society and bandits on the border. Veluna's alliance with Furyondy was setback. Etc etc etc.

    Finally, good was hardly idle. They checked Iuz at the ToEE, they stopped Iggwilv/Iuz in WG6, they defeated the Falcon's cult in Greyhawk, stopped more Iuzlian cultists in WGR1, they raced against rival expeditions that certainly included Iuz to the Caverns of Tsjcanth, and they almost stopped Iuz from being freed (WGR5).
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    Wed Dec 25, 2019 1:46 am  

    As Silvermane mentions, there is a lot going on politically that allows Iuz to live/thrive.

    Furyondy is the main counter to Iuz.

    The Shield Lands is the main counter to The Horned Society (or expanded lands of Iuz post-Greyhawk Wars).

    Veluna is a counter to Ket and Yatil Mountains/Vesve Forest monsters, and is wary of the intentions of Gran March and Keoland.

    Nyrond counters The Great Kingdom, and to a lesser extent other nearby nations.

    The Urnst states are wary of being gobbled up by Nyrond.

    Tehn is essentially a buffer state for many against The Pale, Stonefist, and the Bandit Kingdoms.

    The City of Greyahwk and Dyvers are neutral...ish.

    And yet most all of them are literal opportunists, and because of that there is little than can be done to unify to annihilate Iuz. Everyone is wary of their neighbors, even though most of those neighbors are not led by a horrifyingly and supernaturally evil demon god.

    Fortunately, many of the servants of Iuz "eat their own," which limits them to some extent (i.e. the "blessing" that is the Chaotic Evil alignment Wink ).

    Think of Medieval Europe. The nations quite literally sought out ways to screw each other over, and that is without any of them happening to be ruled by a demon god. Now, imagine Medieval Europe, but with powerful magic, monsters, and demon gods thrown in, and look upon The Flanaess with fresh eyes. Sure, everyone would like to do it, but if one diverts too much power to that task, they will invariably leave themselves open to a backbiting neighbor, or even an internal political power struggle.

    Because people.
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    Kobold Pinata

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002
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    Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:59 pm  

    What conflicts would I have to reconcile from published material if I were to start a GoS campaign in 570 CY? I can see the arguments for 576 CY but this felt a bit too late for me.
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