Signup
Welcome to... Canonfire! World of GreyhawK
Features
Postcards from the Flanaess
Adventures
in Greyhawk
Cities of
Oerth
Deadly
Denizens
Jason Zavoda Presents
The Gord Novels
Greyhawk Wiki
#greytalk
JOIN THE CHAT
ON DISCORD
    Canonfire :: View topic - Regional Products of the Flanaess By Nation (Expanded)
    Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion
    Regional Products of the Flanaess By Nation (Expanded)
    Author Message
    Encyclopedia Greyhawkaniac

    Joined: May 29, 2018
    Posts: 1464


    Send private message
    Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:54 pm  
    Regional Products of the Flanaess By Nation (Expanded)

    Regional Products of the Flanaess By Nation (Expanded)

    From the map found in the 1983 World of Greyhawk boxed set (Pg#45 A Guide to the World of Greyhawk) depicting regional products we are given 15 symbols representing major exports of the various nations (2 symbols of which depict unknown products or that no major exports exist).

    Cloth - (Almor, Bissel, Celene, Ekbir, Furyondy, Geoff, Gran March, Great Kindom, Medegia, North Province, Nyrond, Ulek Duchy, Urnst County, Yeomanry)

    Copper - (Almor, Blackmoor, Geoff, Gran March, Great Kingdom, Ice Barbarians, Idee, Nyrond, Pale, Perrenland, Snow Barbarians, Ulek County, Veluna, Verbobonc, Wolf)

    Electrum - (CoG, Iuz, North Province, Pomarj, Sterich, Sunndi, Ulek Duchy, Urnst Duchy)

    Food - (Almor, Bissel, Celene, Ekbir, Frost Barbarians, Furyondy, Gran March, Great Kingdom, Idee, Medegia, North Province, Nyrond, Pale, Sea Princes, Shield Lands, South Province, Tenh, Tusmit, Ulek County, Ulek Duchy, Ulek Principality, Urnst County, Urnst Duchy, Veluna, Yeomanry, Zeif, Hepmomaland)

    Furs - (Frost Barbarians, Ice Barbarians, Iuz, Ratik, Rovers, Stonefist, Tiger, Wolf)

    Gems - (of 4 types) (Bissel I, Blackmoor II, Bone March I and II, Geoff I, Gran March III, Great Kingdom IV, CoG I-IV, Ice Barbarians I, Irongate II and III, Ket I and IV, Nyrond I and II, Onnwal III, Pale IV, Pomarj I and II, Ratik IV, Scarlet Brotherhood I and III and IV, Snow Barbarians I and II, Sterich II and III, Stonefist I, Sunndi II and IV, Tiger I, Ulek County I and II, Ulek Duchy, Ulek Principality II and IV, Ull II, Urnst Duchy Duchy, Verbobonc I-IV, Yeomanry II, Zeif III, Hepmonland ?)

    Gold - (Bissel, Frost Barbarians, Furyondy, Geoff, Great Kingdom, CoG, Highfolk Town, Highfolk Valley, Idee, Pomarj, Ratik, Rovers, Scarlet Brotherhood, Sterich, Tusmit, Urnst County, Urnst Duchy, Veluna)

    Ivory - (Blackmoor, Stonefist, Hepmonaland)

    Lumber - (Hepmonaland)

    Platinum - (CoG, Onnwal, Sunndi, Tenh, Urnst Duchy, Hepmonaland)

    Silver - (Bandit Kingdoms, Bone March, Celene, Frost Barbarians, Geoff, Great Kingdom, CoG, Ket, Nyrond, Pomarj, South Province, Sterich, Stonefist, Tiger, Tusmit, Ulek County, Ulek Principality, Ull, Urnst Duchy, Veluna, Yeomanry)

    Spices - (Lorship of the Isles, Scarlet Brotherhood, Hepmonaland)

    Woods, Rare - (Highfolk Valley, Lorship of the Isles, Scarlet Brotherhood)

    Most of the distributions seem a bit odd, for instance Hepmonaland alone produces Lumber for export. I propose to expand on the existing list of exports and include variations in type (in a different method than appears to be used for gems) and production level.

    Here is an alphabetical listing of the nations and their resources.

    Almor - (Food, Cloth, Copper)
    Bandit Kingdoms - (Silver)
    Bissel - (Food, Cloth, Gold, Gems I)
    Blackmoor - (Ivory, Copper, Gems II)
    Bone March - (Silver, Gems I and II)
    Celene - (Food, Cloth, Silver)
    Dyvers - (Shipbuilding Supplies - Not a Listed Export Product)
    Exbir - (Food, Cloth)
    Frost Barbarians - (Food, Fur, Silver, Gold)
    Furyondy - (Food, Cloth, Gold)
    Geoff - (Cloth, Copper, Silver, Gold, Gems I)
    Gran March - (Food, Cloth, Copper, Gems III)
    Great Kingdom - (Food, Cloth, Copper, Silver, Gold, Gems IV)
    Greyhawk, City of [CoG] - (Silver, Electrum, Gold, Platinum, Gems I-IV)
    Highfolk, Town - (Gold)
    Highfolk, Valley - (Gold, Rare Woods)
    Horned Society -
    Ice Barbarians - (Furs, Copper, Gems I)
    Idee - (Food, Copper, Gold)
    Irongate - (Gems II, III)
    Iuz - (Furs, Electrum)
    Keoland - (Food, Cloth, Gold, Gems III)
    Ket - (Silver, Gems I and IV)
    Lordship of the Isles - (Rare Woods, Spices)
    Medegia - (Food, Cloth)
    North Province - (Food, Cloth, Electrum)
    Nyrond - (Food, Cloth, Copper, Silver, Gems I and II)
    Onnwal - (Platinum, Gems III)
    Pale - (Food, Copper, Gems IV)
    Perrenland - (Copper)
    Paynims -
    Pomarj - (Silver, Electrum, Gold, Gems I and II)
    Ratik - (Shipbuilding Supplies - Not Listed as an Exported Resource, Furs, Gold, Gems IV)
    Rel Astra -
    Rovers - (Furs, Gold)
    Scarlet Brotherhood - (Rare Woods, Spices, Gold, Gems I and III and IV)
    Sea Barons -
    Sea Princes - (Food)
    Shield Lands - (Food)
    Snow Barbarians - (Copper, Gems I and II)
    South Province - (Food, Silver)
    Spindrift Isles -
    Sterich - (Silver, Electrum, Gold, Gems II and III)
    Stonefist - (Fur, Ivory, Silver, Gems I)
    Sunndi - (Electrum, Platinum, Gems II and IV)
    Tenh - (Food, Platinum)
    Tiger Nomads - (Fur, Silver, Gems I)
    Tusmit - (Food, Silver, Gold)
    Ulek County - (Food, Copper, Silver, Gems I and II)
    Ulek Duchy - (Food, Cloth, Electrum, Gems I and II)
    Ulek Principality - (Food, Silver, Gems II and IV)
    Ull - (Silver, Gems II)
    Urnst County - (Food, Cloth, Gold)
    Urnst Duchy - (Food, Silver, Electrum, Gold, Platinum, Gems I-IV)
    Valley of the Mage -
    Veluna - (Food, Copper, Silver, Gold)
    Verbobonc - (Copper, Gems I-IV)
    Wild Coast -
    Wolf Nomads - (Fur, Copper)
    Yeomanry - (Food, Cloth, Silver, Gem II)
    Zeif - (Food, Gem III)
    NOTE - Hepmonaland - While not a nation it is listed on the regional production map of exported goods - (Lumber, Food, Spices, Platinum, Gems ?, Ivory)
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 11, 2009
    Posts: 343
    From: Aspedri

    Send private message
    Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:35 am  

    Based on the Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh The Sea Princes export brandy and silk. Based on Howl From the North and Iuz the Evil the Bandit Kingdoms are major exporters of weaponry.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 16, 2019
    Posts: 38


    Send private message
    Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:31 am  

    Hmm, Iron seems to be a notable absentee from the list. Perhaps it is only exported in the form of finished goods? Irongate & the Iron Hills would seem the most likely candidate as a primary exporter.

    No salt either. That would explain a lot of the decisions my players' characters make, as Wikipedia tells me symptoms of Hyponatremia (low sodium in the bloodstream) include "a decreased ability to think..." and "...poor balance"!
    CF Admin

    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
    Posts: 1425
    From: Wichita, KS, USA

    Send private message
    Sat Dec 21, 2019 12:56 pm  

    Some other resources to consider as possible additions to an expanded listing:

    - coal
    - mithril and adamantite
    - poisons
    - arms and armor
    - leather
    - magical resources: Oerthblood, ley lines, presence of diarwen (magical roads) from Ivid, fading lands/demi-planes, magical ingredients?, etc.
    - knowledge*: bardic colleges, concentrations of guild repositories, universities, public libraries, etc.?

    Some pulled from the UN Framework for Natural Resources @ https://www.unece.org/energywelcome/areas-of-work/unfc-and-resource-management/about-unfc-and-sustainable-resource-management.html

    tarleton's comments remind me that we can look at the menus of the Inn of the Welcome Wench and from Gord's gourmand feast in Stoink in Saga of Old City to get a better idea of other national/regional foodstuffs and their specific origins too.

    Allan.

    * Knowledge as a category is tricky, since it also starts to point to the concept of talent: mercenary forces from Perrenland are mentioned as an exportable resource, for example, but a) it's not how we usually think of a natural resource, and b) it is a finite resource that could be killed off/conquered and otherwise depeleted (which I suppose isn't too different from oil in the real world, so perhaps these kinds of inclusions are worth thinking about)
    _________________
    Allan Grohe (grodog@gmail.com)
    http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 09, 2003
    Posts: 1279
    From: Clarksville, TN

    Send private message
    Sat Dec 21, 2019 2:02 pm  

    JasonZavoda wrote:
    Regional Products of the Flanaess By Nation (Expanded)

    ...Cloth - (Almor, Bissel, Celene, Ekbir, Furyondy, Geoff, Gran March, Great Kindom, Medegia, North Province, Nyrond, Ulek Duchy, Urnst County, Yeomanry)...

    ...Food - (Almor, Bissel, Celene, Ekbir, Frost Barbarians, Furyondy, Gran March, Great Kingdom, Idee, Medegia, North Province, Nyrond, Pale, Sea Princes, Shield Lands, South Province, Tenh, Tusmit, Ulek County, Ulek Duchy, Ulek Principality, Urnst County, UrnstDuchy, Veluna, Yeomanry, Zeif, Hepmomaland)...

    ...Gems - (of 4 types) (Bissel I, Blackmoor II, Bone March I and II, Geoff I, Gran March III, Great Kingdom IV, CoG I-IV, Ice Barbarians I, Irongate II and III, Ket I and IV, Nyrond I and II, Onnwal III, Pale IV, Pomarj I and II, Ratik IV, Scarlet BrotherhoodI and III and IV, Snow Barbarians I and II, Sterich II and III, Stonefist I, Sunndi II and IV, Tiger I, Ulek County I and II, Ulek Duchy, Ulek Principality II and IV, Ull II, Urnst Duchy Duchy, Verbobonc I-IV, Yeomanry II, Zeif III, Hepmonland ?)...

    -I was working on something like this. You can deduce a region's resources based on soil and rock classifications, which in turn can be deduced from climate types...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USDA_soil_taxonomy

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%B6ppen_climate_classification

    ...and the Darlene and Anna maps. Denis Tetrault is apparently the expert on such things. I think it's his day job. See his work on Irongate: http://melkot.com/locations/irongate/ig-region.html

    Anyway:

    "Cloth" and "Food" were always a bit indistinct, sort of like saying "Precious Metals" instead of Gold, Silver, etc. As for "Gems I-IV", just silly. That was designed to fit in with the AD&D1 DMG, but come on. Can you imagine an atlas saying "South Africa produces gems valued at $500,000? Laughing

    Wool, Flax, or Cotton?

    Meat, Grain, Fruits (or even more detailed)?

    Hematite vs. Malachite? Diamonds vs. Sapphires or Emeralds?

    JasonZavoda wrote:
    ...Most of the distributions seem a bit odd, for instance Hepmonaland alone produces Lumber for export...

    -Ratik's shipbuilding supplies are primarily timber. I assume it includes wool for sails. For line/rope, hemp seems unlikely, but the Norse in Greenland often used leather (walrus).

    tarelton wrote:
    Based on the Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh The Sea Princes export brandy and silk...

    -I'm not sure either one is representative of serious exports (quantity wise)from the Sea Princes; The Sea Princes might themselves have imported the silk from the west (Su Fang or Rukujin?).

    DriveByPoster wrote:
    Hmm, Iron seems to be a notable absentee from the list...

    -And tin, lead, and zinc.

    grodog wrote:
    Some other resources to consider as possible additions to an expanded listing:

    - coal...

    -WGM1 "Border Watch" has a coal mine in Central Furyondy. I always thought that was lame (I always associated coal with hills and mountains), but apparently, dead matter builds up in old lakes when they fill up and becomes lignite and coal (see Histolsols). Maybe Whitesyle Lake and the Nyr Dyv were once connected, and as it dried up, it became bog country, and finally dry land with coal underneath.
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 11, 2009
    Posts: 343
    From: Aspedri

    Send private message
    Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:42 pm  

    Taking what everyone else as said, their is clearly the need for more detail. Some notable medieval European trade goods were:

    Baltic amber (Gems I?)
    Flemish cloth, made from English wool
    Burgundian wine
    British tin
    Tuscan olive oil

    A distinguishing feature of the manorial/feudal system that came out of the crisis of the Crisis of the Second Century was self-sufficiency. Instead of being part of a global, or at least European trade network, the feudal system sought to minimize dependancies. Once you add in the price of transportation (including the risks), wholesale shipping of bulk commodities was quite rare, the exception being wool to Flanders.

    So, how much trade is there in the Flanaess? Certainly more than in Medieval Europe, but no more than in the Renaissance or Roman Empire. Also, I think the trade symbols that Gary Gygax (praise upon his name) placed were hasty and not well thought out. International trade would be a small part of each state's economy, certainly not at levels seen even in the 17th centuries, let alone today (unlike FR, where caravans ship swords 3000 miles for no apparent reason). Most trade would be internal, and bulk commodities only shipped along waterways and seas.

    Anyway, my two cents. I find the discussion of economics fascinating on many levels, and I try to make it as rational as possible in my campaigns.
    Encyclopedia Greyhawkaniac

    Joined: May 29, 2018
    Posts: 1464


    Send private message
    Sat Dec 21, 2019 7:31 pm  

    I'd love to see much more detail. This is just the material I found in the '83 boxed set. Trade has such opportunity for adventure, especially for low level players.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

    Joined: Jul 09, 2003
    Posts: 1279
    From: Clarksville, TN

    Send private message
    Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:06 am  

    tarelton wrote:
    ...So, how much trade is there in the Flanaess? Certainly more than in Medieval Europe, but no more than in the Renaissance or Roman Empire...


    -The Greeks and Romans got diamonds from India, and the Silk Road was operative.

    Potential Uses of Geology & Climatology for a Greyhawk Campaign:

    1) More evocative descriptions e.g., "as you ride along the trail with maize growing in the red clay soil" as opposed to "as you along the trail you see crops growing in dirt";

    2) Deduce mineral deposits;

    3) Deduce crops;

    4) (closely related to 3, above) Deduce soil fertility for creation purposes, or in case a PC gets around to using "Profession (Farmer)";

    5) Calculate speed of evaporation. This came up IMC during a flood along the Jewel River;

    6) Calculate water tables.

    A sample from my 20+ year old notes:

    Crop: Soil / Temp / Rain & Humidity / Sunlight / Notes

    Apple: Medium Loam; Well-Drained High Ground/Cool/Moist /

    Barley: Dry; Alkalai/Cool to Warm/ / /Frost and Weed Tough

    Flax: Moist; Loam; Well-Drained/Cool /Moderate (30" per Year)/Cloudy/

    Wheat: Moist; Silt-Clay Loam/ Warm/Wet; Dry after Blossoming/Sunny/

    Again, if you know the weather (deduce-able from "Weather in the World" in the Glossography for the World of Greyhawk Fantasy Setting, or Dragon #68), you can often deduce the soil and bedrock type, and from there, the resources found there, and vice versa. For example, Junre is the center of a maize-bean-squash culture (Fate of Istus). This might imply an ultisol-type environment with red (iron heavy) soil that can easily wear out with crop rotation or heavy use of fertilizers.

    If you use the "Weather in the World" charts, there's really no such thing as a savannah climate (Tropical with a dry winter), a monsoon climate (Tropical with extremes in summer an winter precipitation), or a mediterranean climate (Mesothermal with a dry summer), because the monthly difference in precipitation is relatively minor (the original author based his charts on Philadelphia, which is considered Mesothermal, consistently humid). Grapes grow best in a mediterranean climate, so, all that wine the adventurers guzzle (or find in treasure hordes) is grown in less than ideal circumstances. Personally, I modify the weather in the tropical areas and faerie-influenced areas to smooth out the seasons. The Scarlet Brotherhood module has charts that try to capture the eccentricities of equatorial climates, although they're a bit off.

    grodog wrote:
    ...tarleton's comments remind me that we can look at the menus of the Inn of the Welcome Wench and from Gord's gourmand feast in Stoink in Saga of Old City to get a better idea of other national/regional foodstuffs and their specific origins too...


    -Saga, pages 147-148, also a mention on 38 and 82.

    Also, Djekel (Frost Barbarians), Wickler Yeomanry), Perrenland, and Ket all produce distinctive cheeses. Ket's cheese is specifically mentioned as being produced with goat's milk (p. 149).

    There's a mention of Keoish Amber in "At Moonset Blackcat Comes" (Dragon #100) on p. 24, and Gygax mentions whiskey twice (pp. 24,26), but not where it comes from. I seem to remember something about it coming from the Cold Barbarians, but I have no source.
    Display posts from previous:   
       Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion All times are GMT - 8 Hours
    Page 1 of 1

    Jump to:  

    You cannot post new topics in this forum
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum
    You cannot vote in polls in this forum




    Canonfire! is a production of the Thursday Group in assocation with GREYtalk and Canonfire! Enterprises

    Contact the Webmaster.  Long Live Spidasa!


    Greyhawk Gothic Font by Darlene Pekul is used under the Creative Commons License.

    PHP-Nuke Copyright © 2005 by Francisco Burzi. This is free software, and you may redistribute it under the GPL. PHP-Nuke comes with absolutely no warranty, for details, see the license.
    Page Generation: 0.30 Seconds