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    Canonfire :: View topic - Ettin's Mound
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    Ettin's Mound
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    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:14 am  
    Ettin's Mound

    In Ivid the Undying, there is a discussion of Ettin's Mound in the southernmost Flinty Hills near Innspa.

    In that write-up, there is a reference to an ancient battle between Flan and Oeridians. Any thoughts as to when that battle was fought, why it was fought, or what it might have been called?

    I'm guessing it was part of the initial period of expansion of the Great Kingdom, but perhaps there's an alternative explanation?
    Black Hand of Oblivion

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    Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:45 pm  

    That seems a reasonable assumption. The battle could be about Oeridian expansion, so a bit later. Or it could be more about the migrations/earlier contact. Whatever the case, I would think the battle must have been pivotal for it to be ancient, and yet still remembered.

    Another one for mortellan's battles series perhaps? Wink
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    GreySage

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    Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:10 am  

    This is in the Adri Forest, so it might have been once ruled by a group closely related to the Ur-Flannae who attacked the City of the Summer Stars, or whatever remained of them after Darnakurian's rampage.

    The initial period of Aerdi expansion targeted the Flan kingdom of Ahlissa to the southwest, and then the pre-Aerdi Oeridian tribes (Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, page 23). The Great Kingdom wasn't very interested in the Adri Forest during its initial expansion (Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, 77). The battle in question was likely fought between the Ur-Flannae and what was likely the soldiers of House Naelax prior to founding Eastfair in -142 CY.

    I would say the battle related to taking the Marchland of the Adri Forest from the Flan, destroying the remnants of Flan power amassed near what would eventually become Innspa, which could have been an ancient capital of the Ur-Flan who ruled near the Harp River. The capital could have been at Ettin's Mound itself, with Innspa built nearby rather than at over the ruins of a possibly accursed sacked city (it's described as a burial mound, but if it's full of enough corpses it might become a burial mound whether or not it was initially designed as one).

    It wouldn't have been called the Battle of Ettin's Mound, since the ettin tribe is relatively recent, but if you assume the horn of fog and brooch of shielding were looted from the Flan burial mound, you could call it the Battle of Foggy Mound or Shield Mound or some such. As it's located near the Harp River, before it joins the Kaye River, you could conceivably call it Harp Mound.


    Last edited by rasgon on Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:20 am; edited 1 time in total
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:13 am  

    So, Ivid the Undying, page 3, states:

    "Only much later, some 700-800 years ago, the strongest
    of the Oeridian tribes, the Aerdi, settled the rich lands to
    the east of the Nyr Dyv and founded the Kingdom of
    Aerdy. A century and more of growth saw the Great
    Kingdom expand, with the Flan driven north and the
    Suloise driven south to the margins of the Densac Gulf.
    At its height, the kingdom stretched from the lands of the
    Sea Barons to the borders of modern Perrenland, and
    from Sunndi to the south to the forbidding Griff-Corusk
    mountains in the North."

    So that would suggest the battle occurred as the Aerdi drove the Flan northwards. So between -217 CY (Founding of Kingdom of Aerdy) and -115 CY. Probably closer to the middle, as this was in the hinterlands, not the heart of the Great Kingdom, but it was nowhere near as far away as Ferrond or Voll.

    I also note that the Battle of Chokestone (in the North Province) unfolded in -171 CY between the Aerdi and a small Flan tribe. (Ivid the Undying, page 53.)

    Are there other contextual dates that might help pin this down?

    --Eric
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    Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:15 am  

    Thanks for both answers. I see that I overlapped the second one by a couple minutes, hence the lack of acknowledgement.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:32 am  

    rasgon wrote:
    This is in the Adri Forest, so it might have been once ruled by a group closely related to the Ur-Flannae who attacked the City of the Summer Stars, or whatever remained of them after Darnakurian's rampage.


    Assuming the Necromancers of Trask were the Ur-Flannae who attacked the City of Summer Stars, which another thread indicated might have happened circa -215 CY (although many posters preferred happened much earlier), then perhaps this was a battle against the remnants of that host? Perhaps the surviving Ur-Flannae buried their dead under the mound after Darnakurian's rampage?
    Quote:


    The initial period of Aerdi expansion targeted the Flan kingdom of Ahlissa to the southwest, and then the pre-Aerdi Oeridian tribes (Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, page 23). The Great Kingdom wasn't very interested in the Adri Forest during its initial expansion (Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, 77). The battle in question was likely fought between the Ur-Flannae and what was likely the soldiers of House Naelax prior to founding Eastfair in -142 CY.


    Where does the -142 CY date come from?

    Perhaps the surviving Flan were defending the mound from the Aerdi, who sought to loot it?

    Quote:
    It wouldn't have been called the Battle of Ettin's Mound, since the ettin tribe is relatively recent, but if you assume the horn of fog and brooch of shielding were looted from the Flan burial mound, you could call it the Battle of Foggy Mound or Shield Mound or some such. As it's located near the Harp River, before it joins the Kaye River, you could conceivably call it Harp Mound.


    Another approach might be to call it "Skull Mound" after all the corpses interred within, and the subsequent battle was the "Battle of Skulls."

    --Eric
    GreySage

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    Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:41 am  

    EricLBoyd wrote:
    Where does the -142 CY date come from?


    Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, page 73: "Other Celestial Houses, such as Naelax and Torquann, desired their own homelands and looked to the northlands. By all accounts, the Flan of these lands were vile and decadent. Worshiping dark powers and draconian overlords, they preyed upon their neighbors for centuries. These gentler folk were quick to ally with the Aerdi when their armies marched up the Flanmi River and conquered those Flan kingdoms in the fifth century OR. Most of these lands were soon consolidated as North Province of the Aerdy, with the Naelax in the primacy. After eradicating most of the vestiges of the previous Flan culture, they founded the court at Eastfair in 503 OR (–142 CY)..."

    So basically, the conquest happened in the previous century OR (which is to say, at least four years prior), and -142 CY is after the conquests of North Province were completed.

    Quote:
    Perhaps the surviving Flan were defending the mound from the Aerdi, who sought to loot it?


    That could be!

    Quote:
    Another approach might be to call it "Skull Mound" after all the corpses interred within, and the subsequent battle was the "Battle of Skulls."


    Sure, that sounds appropriate.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:34 am  

    Looking at Ivid the Undying, page 10, I note that House Cranden dominated Ahlissa and Almor for centuries.

    What if the Oerdians did a pincer move, with House Cranden attacking from the south and west (basically from Innspa) while House Naelax attacked from the east?

    Of course, there's one more bit to tie in. Innspa has been part of North Province, Nyrond, and Almor in its history. (Ivid page 76.) It's hard to see how the North Province would have acquired it if not for this battle.

    --Eric
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    Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:05 am  

    So here's what I came up with for backstory. Comments welcome

    Ettin’s Mound lies at the southern end of the Flinty Hills beneath the northwestern verge of the Adri Forest. This single hillock juts out from the forest, an isolated extension of the forested eastern hills. Once known as Skull Mound, this isolated tor was named for the thousands of dead buried beneath its forested slopes by the Ur-Flannae who survived their disastrous assault on the City of Summer Stars.

    In -164 CY, Skull Mound was the site of a titanic battle between the remnants of the Necromancers of Trask and the Kingdom of Aerdy. The Battle of Skulls saw endless waves of undead called forth by the Ur-Flannae erupt from the slopes of the cairn to attack the invading Oeridians. In the end, the armies of House Cranden (from the south and west) and House Naelax (from the east) were victorious, and the surviving Necromancers of Trask were believed to be utterly destroyed. However, in the clash between rival Oeridian houses to claim the treasures of the Ur-Flannae, many foul artifacts vanished, their fate unknown even today.

    In the immediate aftermath of the Battle of Skulls, House Naelax claimed the hastily built keep at what is now Innspa, while House Cranden seized more than its fair share of plundered Ur-Flannae artifacts. It took nine years of sometimes bitter negotiations before Innspa was awarded to House Cranden in exchange for several fell artifacts of ancient power thereafter entrusted to House Naelax for safekeeping.
    GreySage

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    Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:33 am  

    The LGG suggested that the Naelax allied with other Flan nations, so it's possible it wasn't as simple as Oeridians on one side of the battle and Flan on the other. The Lathu, a Flan nation said to have lived south of the Flinty Hills in the Living Greyhawk campaign (see here, for example, for a summary) might have formed part of the "pincher" only to be denied their share of the spoils.

    Or the battle could have been between the Lathu and Nehron.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:24 am  

    These are good suggestions.

    I like the idea that Lathu and Naelax allied against the Necromancers of Trask, although I also like it as I wrote it with House Cranden. I'll keep noodling on this idea.

    I'm not sure it works as well for House Nehron, as I was also trying to come up with an explanation as to why the North Province ever ruled Innspa. By having it briefly in the hands of House Naelax, that explains that brief period of control. I also think it makes sense to avoid having House Nehron and House Naelax engage before the two kingdoms clash in the Battle of Fortnight's Length.
    Grandmaster Greytalker

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    Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:20 pm  

    Sorry I'm coming to this late. Just saw your comment on my Aerdi History blog. Thanks for the feedback!
    I'd probably go in a totally different direction with Ettin's Mound and I see that Rasgon has suggested the same thing. I'd say the battle was between the expanding Nehron Kingdom and Flan tribes of that area. In my history I have the Tuerny conquering the Lathu and then the Nehron taking those lands as one of the nations arrayed against Tuerny.
    I like what you've written though. My one criticism is that I wouldn't think the Naelex would have been pushing westward through the Adri that far as early as -164 if Eastfair wasn't founded until 20 years later.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sat May 29, 2021 12:26 am  

    Oh great debate so far... Sorry I just found that. During Living Greyhawk that part of the world was given to real world Germany/Austria to develop. And as I was a Triad member back then, let me tell you, with what we came up.

    After the defeat of the Ur-Flannae by Darnakurian, the Flan reorganized slowly into several smaller kingdoms. One of it was a deep in the Adri forest and followed a mighty dragon, that they thought was a god. That kingdom was founded roughly around twelve hundred years before CY. Some hundred years later the dragon vanished from the oerth (rumours said a gnomish palladin from the flinty hills killed him, others claimed that the twin cataclysms in the west created rifts and raptures that even manifested themselves in the eastern Flanaess and through them the dragon and his main temple was torn from oerth to some sort demi- or pocketplane).
    But his cult tried to get in touch with him through dark rituals, that even involved breeding experiements with humans and dragons (an explanation for half-dragons, dragonborns or what ever race of draconian creatures a GM would like). Those experiements weren't sucessful and the bond to theire dragon-god grew weaker and weaker. And from the outside tension grew. Invaders from far away lands slowly captured there lands and build there own kingdoms on it. Most flan kingdoms around the Adri were already succumbed, when the dragon cult closed the temples and retreated into the woods and becoming followers of Nerull and Incabulos, to make those invaders suffer.

    We figured that the battle of Ettins Mound was only a small battle, compared to that of Chokestone. And the take that the oeridian tribe, who fought it might be the nehrond fits very well with our assumptions.

    Nevertheless both sides involved a lot of magic. So much, that the Ettins were involved later on guarding this side.
    The story of the Ettins inspired an LG-adventure, that was called "Totentanz" (Dance of the Dead). Short summary: a minor evil artifact was stolen from that battleground, and the Ettins want it back.
    The PC were involved, because that way the Ettins would not leave Ettins Mound and ransack the whole region and the weilder of the artifact already killed some people with it. So it needed to be returned to that strange Ettin tribe.

    Those are the entries from the basic timeline of our region:

    Circa -1.200 CY The green dragon Achtiporax settles in the Adri and subjugates the Flan tribes. The Flan start viewing him as a god. All throughout the Adri, temples are erected in his honour. The Dragon Cult is rumoured to conduct human sacrifices and other barbarous rituals.

    Circa CY -175
    Torquann and Naelax Princes lead the conquest of the "vile and decadent", dragon worshipping Flan Kingdoms in the upper reaches of the Flamni Basin between the Adri Forest and the Solnor Ocean.

    CY -110
    The Aerdy won victory over the Kingdom of Nehron, the last independent Oeridian kingdom. The battle is known as the "Battle of a Forthnight's Length". Sages still debate on the location of the battleground, but most believe that the battle was fought on the plains of Almor.

    (more here: www.adri.hoellengeier.de)
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