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    Canonfire :: View topic - Wizards Guilds other than Greyhawk's
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    Wizards Guilds other than Greyhawk's
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    Journeyman Greytalker

    Joined: Sep 20, 2001
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    Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:02 pm  
    Wizards Guilds other than Greyhawk's

    I'd like to develop this scenario suggestion from Elder Evils:


    EL 12: Months later, the player characters come to another
    city for training, rest, and to resupply. When one of the spellcasters
    goes to the wizards’ guild to purchase magic items or
    stock his spellbook, he finds the place is empty. Investigation
    reveals that the place has been ransacked and the wizards
    and staff have been transformed into undead horrors. While
    fighting the undead, the PCs rescue a few survivors, who
    provide a description of the thief: Edwin. They reveal that
    although an assortment of smaller items were taken, the most
    devastating loss was a well of many worlds.

    . . . but I'd rather not destroy the Greyhawk Wizards Guild. Is there another Wizards Guild in the Central Flanaess I could destroy instead? Do Dyvers or Hardby have their own guilds? or either of the Wild Coast towns?

    I would rather the PCs don't have to travel far to blunder into this, so Aerdy & Baklunish lands & Sheldomar Valley are probably out (PCs will be based in Greyhawk around this time.)

    (Alternately, is there some other adventurer-friendly organization in Greyhawk City that I could destroy with less long-term ramifications that might just have a well of worlds lying around.)

    Also, does anyone know of any adventures (Dungeon magazine or 3rd party or whatever) set in Wizards' Guilds I could steal maps & encounters from? Bonus points for adventures with ruined or infested guilds. Doesn't have to be Greyhawk or even D&D, as I just want to steal stuff & convert it myself. My first thought was that 2e School of Wizardry but man, that's huge, and I'd rather deal with something more contained if I could.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:57 pm  

    I'd imagine most large cities would have a Wizard's guild. Now whether the smaller towns would have a full fledged guild is another question.

    Were I doing it, I'd go with Dyvers. Dyvers is a fairly large city, a major rival to Greyhawk, and in defintely second place in that rivalry. Second place tries harder, they would have done all they could to have a major mage guild.

    And in that effort they might get a bit careless as to who gets let in...

    No idea if anyone has detailed it out, though.
    Encyclopedia Greyhawkaniac

    Joined: May 29, 2018
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    Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:27 am  
    Re: Wizards Guilds other than Greyhawk's

    edmundscott wrote:
    I'd like to develop this scenario suggestion from Elder Evils:


    EL 12: Months later, the player characters come to another
    city for training, rest, and to resupply. When one of the spellcasters
    goes to the wizards’ guild to purchase magic items or
    stock his spellbook, he finds the place is empty. Investigation
    reveals that the place has been ransacked and the wizards
    and staff have been transformed into undead horrors. While
    fighting the undead, the PCs rescue a few survivors, who
    provide a description of the thief: Edwin. They reveal that
    although an assortment of smaller items were taken, the most
    devastating loss was a well of many worlds.

    . . . but I'd rather not destroy the Greyhawk Wizards Guild. Is there another Wizards Guild in the Central Flanaess I could destroy instead? Do Dyvers or Hardby have their own guilds? or either of the Wild Coast towns?

    I would rather the PCs don't have to travel far to blunder into this, so Aerdy & Baklunish lands & Sheldomar Valley are probably out (PCs will be based in Greyhawk around this time.)

    (Alternately, is there some other adventurer-friendly organization in Greyhawk City that I could destroy with less long-term ramifications that might just have a well of worlds lying around.)

    Also, does anyone know of any adventures (Dungeon magazine or 3rd party or whatever) set in Wizards' Guilds I could steal maps & encounters from? Bonus points for adventures with ruined or infested guilds. Doesn't have to be Greyhawk or even D&D, as I just want to steal stuff & convert it myself. My first thought was that 2e School of Wizardry but man, that's huge, and I'd rather deal with something more contained if I could.


    Arcanium (Elredd)[GLD]
    WG8 - 39

    Sorcerous Union (Radigast City)[GLD]
    LGJ#0 - 10

    Wizards, Guild of (Suderham)[GLD]
    A1-4 - 103
    A3 - 14

    Wizards, Guild of {Mages}(Ulek)[GLD]
    CTH - 83
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
    Posts: 3199
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    Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:13 am  

    "Sorcerous Societies of the Flanaess" by Gary Holian in Oerth Journal #3 is worth looking at.

    According to Fate of Istus, Verbobonc has a guild called the Silver Consortium, which includes mages, apothecaries, alchemists, and scholars.

    Fate of Istus places a building in Elredd called the Arcanium. It's a mage's meeting forum.

    Also in Fate of Istus, the Sage's Tower of Rookroost and the Mages' Guildhall in Chendl.

    "Asflag's Unintentional Emporium" in Dungeon #36 features a recently abandoned wizard's tower in a major city that would work as part of the Conclave Arcanum of Dyvers (as Gary Holian called it). Note that Slavers calls the Dyvers mage guild the Academy of Sorcery, a name that became more problematic in 3rd edition.

    "The School of Nekros" in Dungeon #27 details a school of necromancy operating in secret upstream from a halfling settlement (which could easily be Elmshire, which would place the School of Nekros in the Cairn Hills).

    "The Mystic College" in Dragon #123 might be worth looking at. It has no maps but it has some general guidelines on arcane universities.

    "Where Wizards Meet" in Dragon #139 does have maps, detailing a guild called Mageholm, which has five levels plus a basement.

    Redhurst: Academy of Magic is another example, though I think it's a lot more than what you're looking for.

    And Secret College of Necromancy (which fits well in Shiboleth).

    The Arcanist's Mill

    Prefab Buildings: Mages Guild

    Wizard Academy Floors

    The College of Winterhold

    Guild of the Dark Wizards

    The Dead Wizard's Tower

    Guild's Tower

    Generic Wizard's Tower
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Fri Nov 12, 2021 12:14 pm  

    Wow, everyone, thanks so much. I have a lot of research and digging to do, but now, happily, some specific directions where to proceed.

    One more quick question: another possibility occurred to me in the City of Greyhawk might be a secret Thieves' Guild lair. I wondered if it seems at all possible that the Thieves' Guild might have a semi-secret magical subchapter or subguild or specialized location where wizards employed by the Guild can work without interference from the actual Wizards' Guild, and so the thieves don't have to constantly play the mother-may-I game when they need a magic item or spell.

    As far as you guys know, does this idea make sense? or is the Thieves Guild so entrenched into Greyhawk Society they'd just have some sort of agreement with the Wizards Guild for what they need?
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:22 pm  

    I forget if the Mage's guild in Greyhawk has a seat on the city council. The thieves guild has at least two open representatives (the guildmaster and the major), at leat one of the three merchant's guild is secretly part of the thieve's guild, and then there's the representative of the assassin's guild. The wizards might be a wee bit overmatched, politically. On the other hand, displeased wizards could just blow up the government so you don't want to push them very hard. "Meddle not in the affairs of wizards, because you are not fireproof and burn easily."

    Yes, the theives guild does have secret hideouts, quite a few. There are even Greyhawk city adventures of players rediscovering lost secret hideouts of the thieves' guild. There's no official mage/thief subguild I'm aware of, but there's no reason there couldn't be. And I imagine if there was, at least one member of that subguild would maintain a respectable public persona and be an open member of the Mage Guild.

    (And possibly even be angling for the Mage Guild's seat on the city council...)

    But yes, the thieves' guild is VERY solidly established in the Greyhawk, and I would assume there is reasonable accomodations have been made between the two guilds. I would also expect that the thieves' guild has their own stash of magic items that the mages might not be pleased with them having,,,
    Adept Greytalker

    Joined: Apr 26, 2002
    Posts: 456
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    Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:07 pm  

    Yes, the master of the Wizards' Guild has a seat on the Directing Oligarchy. So does the head of the "Society of Magi", whatever that's supposed to be. And while the wizards are more powerful on paper, they are limited by their limited numbers, the amount of time they have to spend re-learning their spells and the availability of material components. Not to mention that most of Greyhawk's clerics would probably support the existing city government against any wizardly takeover, so even the magic angle can be countered.

    The Adventure Begins says that the thieves never, ever try and rob the wizards' guildhall or the Academy of Magical Arts. Besides the obvious dangers (consider yourself lucky if the wizards just blast you to a pulp!) the wizards are far better to have as allies. After all, where else can the thieves get items like potions or rings of invisbility, bags of holding, potions of speed, shoes of silence, protective bracers, rings or cloaks or any of the many other magical items that are handy for thievery on short notice?
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:51 am  

    Well, CruelSummerLord’s comment brings me to my next question: What is actually known about the Society of the Magi? and maybe I should blow that up instead?

    Is it just a social club for wizard’s? Or a scholarly, theoretical group? But wouldn’t the Wizard’s Guild perform both functions?

    Surely someone must have developed this group, whatever it is.
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
    Posts: 3199
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    Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:57 am  

    edmundscott wrote:
    Well, CruelSummerLord’s comment brings me to my next question: What is actually known about the Society of the Magi? and maybe I should blow that up instead?


    The Society of Magi is a politically active body of wizards, required to be full-time residents of the Free City and members of the Wizards' Guild in good standing.

    It's a political group, not a group that discusses magical theory. According to The Adventure Begins, "The society is primarily concerned with the political situation of the Flanaess as it affects the security and well-being of the City of Greyhawk."

    I think it's more like a political think tank like the Project For the New American Century in the real world, but its members are all also members of the Wizards' Guild.

    If you're looking for something to blow up, note that the Wizards' Guildhall and the Greyhawk University of Magical Arts are different places, though the former runs the latter.
    Journeyman Greytalker

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    Sat Nov 13, 2021 11:26 am  

    Thanks, Rasgon. Thinking of the Society like a think-tank helps enormously. Do they have a guildhall/home base location listed anywhere? Who do we know are members besides Kieren Jalucian?
    Adept Greytalker

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    Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:54 pm  

    rasgon wrote:

    The Society of Magi is a politically active body of wizards, required to be full-time residents of the Free City and members of the Wizards' Guild in good standing.

    It's a political group, not a group that discusses magical theory. According to The Adventure Begins, "The society is primarily concerned with the political situation of the Flanaess as it affects the security and well-being of the City of Greyhawk."


    Where exactly in TAB does it say that? My copy is literally in tatters and I can't remember that reference.

    edmundscott wrote:
    Thanks, Rasgon. Thinking of the Society like a think-tank helps enormously. Do they have a guildhall/home base location listed anywhere? Who do we know are members besides Kieren Jalucian?


    Kieren Jalucian may or may not be a member. He sits on the Oligarchy as the representative of the Wizards' Guild, not the Society of Magi. The Society is instead represented on the Oligarchy by its president Torrentz Hebvard. Incidentally, Hebvard was first introduced in the City of Greyhawk boxed set as a wizard suffering from the effects of an artifact that gave him a base AC of 0 (by 1/2E standards) and regeneration, but also slowly drained his intelligence. Apparently he somehow got this cured between 581 and 591 CY.
    GreySage

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    Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:02 pm  

    CruelSummerLord wrote:
    Where exactly in TAB does it say that? My copy is literally in tatters and I can't remember that reference.


    Page 7, left column, under the "The Center of Magic" heading.

    Quote:
    Kieren Jalucian may or may not be a member.


    Kieren was briefly the president of the Society of Magi, according to Dragon #268, page 70.

    But yeah, the known members are Otiluke (president until his death in 584 CY), Kieren Jalucian (briefly president following the death of Otiluke), Torrentz Hebvard (current president in 591 CY), and Jallarzi Sallavarian (the youngest member in 581 CY, according to Feuds, Folks, & Factions, page 27).

    I can't find any reference to a headquarters for the Society of Magi. There isn't one mentioned in Maldin's location index. Perhaps they have their own building, or perhaps they meet at the Wizards' Guild. There's nothing wrong with giving them their own headquarters to destroy if you're so inclined. I would put it in the High Quarter.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:15 pm  

    If the time period (CY) when your adventure is occurring is prior to Slavers, then you might want to set it the adventure in Dyvers.
    You could destroy the Conclave Arcanum.
    The destroyed guild would then eventually be succeeded by the Academy of Sorcery from Slavers, which rose to occupy its place in Dyvers society.
    This trick could reduce or eliminate long term ramifications. The destroyed wizards guild simply explains the name change that occured between Oerth Journal #3 and Slavers.
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