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    Canonfire :: View topic - The Sunless Citadel and Forge of Fury, and Ashardalon
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    The Sunless Citadel and Forge of Fury, and Ashardalon
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 05, 2020
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    Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:25 pm  
    The Sunless Citadel and Forge of Fury, and Ashardalon

    A couple of questions:

    - Location: When I ran these two adventures, it was the 5E versions from Tales of the Yawning Portal. There, they are suggested to be linked, so I placed them close together (Oakhurst in Sunless Citadel about 50 miles by road / 40 miles straight-line from Blasingdell in Forge of Fury).

    But the map here ( http://www.canonfire.com/cf/ghadventures.php ) places them far apart, and Forge of Fury seems to be placed in high mountains. The 5E version of Forge of Fury describes low mountains, more like the Ozarks or lower Appalachians than the Rockies.

    Were the original 3E versions of these adventures unconnected? Was Forge of Fury in a different kind of geography?

    - The 5E version of Sunless Citadel mentions the red dragon Ashardalon in its backstory. IIRC, this is the same dragon encountered (as some kind of demon/dragon hybrid with a Balor as its 'heart') in the 3E adventure Bastion of Broken Souls. Did the 3E version of Sunless Citadel have this connection too?
    GreySage

    Joined: Aug 03, 2001
    Posts: 3287
    From: Michigan

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    Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:04 am  

    WingofCoot wrote:
    A couple of questions:
    But the map here ( http://www.canonfire.com/cf/ghadventures.php ) places them far apart, and Forge of Fury seems to be placed in high mountains. The 5E version of Forge of Fury describes low mountains, more like the Ozarks or lower Appalachians than the Rockies.


    The 3e version of the module mentions a "rugged, forested hill crowned by a bare rocky crag," surrounded by "rugged terrain and dense forests." Blasdingdell is "a small mining town on the northern frontier." On the way to the Stone Tooth you pass "brooding pine forests and deep vales."

    So yeah, I'm thinking it's more like the Appalachians (or the Lortmils/Lorridges).

    Quote:
    Were the original 3E versions of these adventures unconnected? Was Forge of Fury in a different kind of geography?


    They were connected, albeit loosely.

    Quote:
    The 5E version of Sunless Citadel mentions the red dragon Ashardalon in its backstory. IIRC, this is the same dragon encountered (as some kind of demon/dragon hybrid with a Balor as its 'heart') in the 3E adventure Bastion of Broken Souls. Did the 3E version of Sunless Citadel have this connection too?


    Yeah, Ashardalon is the main thread connecting the series. Sunless Citadel, The Standing Stone, and Bastion of Broken Souls all mentioned him, and the vampire Gulthias from Sunless Citadel appeared in Heart of Nightfang Spire.

    Here's a fanon history by TwiceBorn that incorporates the backstory of Ashardalon and the druid Dydd into Greyhawk. He talks more about his placement in this thread:

    TwiceBorn wrote:
    Where geography is concerned, The Sunless Citadel is the only module that I would place in the Southern Lorridges proper. The overland map provided in The Sunless Citadel of the hills surrounding the town of Oakhurst and the citadel is very small, vague, and does not even feature a scale... which makes it easily adaptable to virtually any hilly locale in the Flanaess (the southern Lorridges simply suited my campaign purposes best). Interestingly, the overland map in The Sunless Citadel shows a geographical feature called the "Ashen Plain," which coincides well with "the waste" found in the hills to the east of Brookhollow in the Dungeon adventure "Evil Unearthed."

    In note 9, I suggested that Nightfang Spire could be located nearby, in the northwest spur of the Lortmils. IMC, I will place the Forge of Fury (which consists of a dungeon crawl in an abandoned dwarven hall overrun by monsters) a bit further south in the Lortmils, perhaps one or two hexes away from the Gran March's eastern border. Given that a dragon is featured in the latter adventure, a DM could without too much effort find a way to establish connections between the background of the Forge of Fury and that of the Sunless Citadel.

    The Speaker in Dreams takes place in a riverside town. I don't think this story fits particularly well with the rest of the AP. Brindinford could be a stand-in for Shiboleth (amongst other things, the town's location on the river would need to be shifted), with a great deal of work, but... let's just say that as written, I don't think Brindinford (or the adventure background) fit particularly well with the GM.

    The Standing Stone is set in a heavily forested area that would be the equivalent of less than one hex (Darlene map) in size. The thorp of Ossington is very isolated, and the region has a druidic heritage, as well as an odd chapel dedicated to the nine "generic GH" gods who have a neutral component to their alignment. You might want to change the grugach in the module to sylvan elves, but aside from that, the module can be easily located in the eastern part of the Dim Forest without generating any canon conflicts.

    Deep Horizon takes place in the underdark. The Sunless Citadel cutaway map shows underground passages going beyond the locations described in the module, and theoretically could link up to the underdark (which, in turn, could justify the presence of a mind flayer in Shiboleth, if one wanted to set The Speaker in Dreams in the Gran March). I have not yet decided if I want to see that underdark connection IMC.

    Both Lord of the Iron Fortress and Bastion of Broken Souls are set in planar locales.


    If you use Anna's map of Bissel, the Ashen Plain is probably the plateau between Mistyvale and Brierden Keep, though if you're using the Dungeon #82 adventure, the area immediately east of Brierden Keep fits better (Brierden Keep becomes Castle Overlook from that adventure).

    In this thread there are some other suggestions. I suggested Millen as a stand-in for Brindenford, while airwalkrr persuasively suggested Littleberg instead.

    airwalkrr wrote:
    First of all, to answer your main question, I believe Littleberg is probably one of the most optimal places for the Speaker in Dreams. In the first place, it is a barony whose ruler has a LG alignment (same as Baron Euphemes). In the second, it is roughly the same size, though a little larger. Finally, it is built on an important river trade route (the Att) like Brindinford.

    As for the other adventures...

    I would set the Sunless Citadel in Kron Hills near the Viscounty of Verbobonc. A small town within rolling hills like Oakhurst fits well into the area.

    For the Forge of Fury, it is a little more difficult, however, many people like to place this adventure in the Lortmils or Lorridges. Part of the difficulty is that there is no community of ~2,000 like Blasingdell within 30 miles of a mountain there. However, if you don't want to go far from Verbobonc after the Sunless Citadel, then perhaps making Blasingdell the village of Rastor or Tulvar would work. Since Blasingdell is supposed to be an integrated city, this works fairly well. My next best suggestion would be Thrunch in the Principality of Ulek, although it is quite a bit further away. Nevertheless, as a dwarven nation, the PoU might serve better as a backdrop for the adventure.

    When your PCs get to the Speaker in Dreams, if they are coming from the Lortmills, then Littleberg isn't too far away. However, if you wanted to go with Thrunch as the setting for the previous adventure, then maybe Keaford in Keoland or Courwood in Celene would fit better.

    When it comes to The Standing Stone, I believe the best location is undeniably the Gnarley Forest. You could possibly get away with the Welkwood or Suss, but if you are centering a lot of these adventures near Verbobonc (which is a fairly good idea), then the Gnarley is the closest and fits the best.

    The Heart of Nightfang Spire can be difficult to place, however the requirements are few. You simply need a place with not many people around. Putting it smack dab in the middle of the Lortmils works well enough. For a more exotic (and dangerous) excursion, you could take the PCs to the Drachensgrab Hills in the Pomarj. Anywhere you can justify a canyon works however.

    Placing Deep Horizon is easy, as it is an Underdark adventure, and anywhere you can justify seismic activity opening up a new passage to the Underdark works well. I'd keep it away from the Vault of the Drow in the Hellfurnaces though since that area tends to be highest in drow traffic and the desmodu are presumed to have closed themselves off from the drow long ago.

    Lord of the Iron Fortress is likewise easy since it takes place mostly on Acheron.

    Finally, Bastion of Broken Souls is also primarily a planar adventure, so you should have little difficulty with fitting it into Greyhawk, since most of it takes place outside of the Prime Material.


    Ghosts of Saltmarsh includes suggestions for some of these adventures, but that's more properly a suggestion for placing them within a Saltmarsh campaign rather than Greyhawk in general. That is, they're decent ideas if you're basing a campaign in Saltmarsh, but shouldn't be considered definitive if your campaign is set elsewhere.

    Here's another thread.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:33 pm  

    Thank you! That's a big help.

    I will look over the links on Ashardalon. My PCs are likely to face him soon...
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