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    Canonfire :: View topic - Regarding Wee Jas and the Turning of Undead
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    Regarding Wee Jas and the Turning of Undead
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    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    From: So. Cal

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    Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:39 pm  
    Regarding Wee Jas and the Turning of Undead

    In every write-up for specialty priests of Wee Jas that I have seen, there is always one area that I have never been satisfied with and that is how the priestsí ability to turn undead is handled. Due to alignment restrictions, priests of Wee Jas usually are written as having the ability to command undead, which does not completely represent the unique relationship that Wee Jas has with the undead. Wee Jas, as the goddess of death, is a guardian of the dead. Not only this, but she has power over lawful undead- others are of little use to her and are an anathema to be destroyed. To this end, Iíve created a method for both aspects of this ability to be represented. It worked very well in my campaign while we all played under the 2e system. Here it is:

    ***
    Regardless of their alignment, priests of Wee Jas always have the ability to turn undead and may never command undead, with one exception. The exception to this is lawful undead, which the priest may command. If a group of undead of multiple alignments is confronted, the priest may roll to turn undead as normal. The priest may opt to command any lawful undead among the group that would have normally been turned; all other types of non-lawful undead are turned as normal.
    ***

    Thatís it. It is very simple, but has worked very well. I think that it accurately represents the fact that Wee Jas has power over lawful undead, while still being an enemy of undead in general. They (the undead) are anathema to life, and the souls of the tortured undead should be in the after-life anyway. This is Wee Jasí area of control, and is demonstrated aptly by the fact that she is reluctant to let any souls return to the prime material plane by any means.
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    Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:01 am  

    I see your logic, and would accept it as a player, but in the campaign I run, I make no exceptions. Wee Jas doesn't tolerate or endorse undead at all.

    My reasoning focuses on her Death (not undeath, just death) and Law aspects.

    Death is a law, the final law, the ultimate law all beings must follow. Breaking this law is not allowed.

    Some might argue that wee jas would reward her loyal servants with unlife, or eternal life. Liches are often cited in this regard, due to their connection with Wizards, and Wee Jas's magic aspect, but I reject this. Once a loyal follower has died, and left the mortal realm, Wee Jas can reform them into divine servants. In my campaign this is, in fact, where devils come from.
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    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:42 am  

    I mostly agree with your view on this topic. My view is in no small part colored by Lakofka's original article on Wee Jas. Lakofka's whole series of articles on the Suel pantheon formed the basis of how I view this group of deities, with a bit of influence being added with later renditions of them. While Wee Jas is a foe of unlife and views death as the final journey into her realm, she also has the power to summon lawful undead and lawful dragons to her aid. Seeing as one of the main powers of clerics is to turn undead, I decided to skew their turning ability to reflect that their goddess does in fact make use of lawful undead. I see these undead as guardian spirits of Wee Jas' underworld(the summoned ones), or if on the prime they are viewed as convenient servants. The fact that she is a deity of law as well as death binds these lawful undead to her will, while non-lawful undead fear Her and Her clergy both. Her priests still hunt and destroy undead when it is convenient for them to do so, as this unnatural state goes against the laws of life and death, but this is not their overriding goal in serving Wee Jas.

    As to rewarding her servants with undeath, hell no! Once they die, they are dead. The only reward that Wee Jas would give them would be raising or resurrection, and only then if the priest casting the spell was of good standing and had an important reason for doing so. Otherwise it is simply R.I.P. As Wee Jas is a bit vain about Her looks, I see this trait showing up in here clergy as well, most likely by them using longevity potions to maintain their youth and stave off death as they are able to. I see them being a bit vain, just like the goddess they worship, and I see Wee Jas as more than willing to allow her worshippers to futher enhance their beauty and lifespans through the use of magic. If they are not vain about their looks, priests of Wee Jas will at least probably be dressed well- appearancces are important to them on some level.

    Wee Jas barely tolerates lawful undead(if they suit her current purpose), and certainly doesn't endorse any undead whatsoever. Her priests may make use of lawful undead as Wee Jas is respected by all lawful creatures, even such creatures as lawful good dragons. It can be said that not too many lawful and good creatures will serve a deity of Acheron and so I see that Wee Jas' aspect of Law supercedes Her aspects of Death and Magic. Her influences are also most often presented in this way. So even lawful undead bow down to her if they have to.

    But with all that being said, I still understand why you choose to only allow turning for clerics of Wee Jas and that undead are anathema to Her religion. Until I wrote up Her specialty priests' entry way back when, that is all I allowed Her clerics to do as well; even the neutral and evil aligned ones. I included this post as a recommended change to how the turn undead ability is handled in other specialty priest entries for Wee Jas, as I don't intend to post my Wee Jas entry unless somebody requests it. I find the other published entries very acceptable, with the exception of the turning undead part.


    Last edited by Cebrion on Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: May 12, 2005
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    Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:57 pm  

    According to Len, LG and LN priests of Wee Jas Turn, and LE priests Command.
    Black Hand of Oblivion

    Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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    Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:33 am  

    My opinion is that most priests of the same diety should be able to do do the same things with their powers, irregardless of alignment.

    Wee Jas is an exceptional case in point, as she is actively served by priests who may be good, neutral , or evil. Most deities only have priests of good and neutral alignments, or priests of neutral and evil alignments and not all three.

    Seeing as Wee Jas represents Law above all things, I chose to make this an overiding factor in how the turn undead ability works for her priests- it works the same for all of them. To priests of Wee Jas, undead are not so much something to be tolereated depending on the priest's alignment, they are simply unnatural to such priests, and either serve or are destoryed. Even those undead that serve will eventually be destroyed as well. This is represented in my recommended changes to the turn undead ability. Priests of Wee Jas treat undead almost exactly how their goddess does.

    This was all accoridng to my original write-up for specialty priests of Wee Jas(written around 1992) which I did not bother to post here as there are already sources with very good entries for specialty priests of Wee Jas.
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    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Aug 17, 2004
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    Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:04 am  

    Post Wee Jas Cebrion...
    It would complete the Suel Pantheon and you can't have too many options.

    Although I tend to side with chatdemon on the undead issue, I see nothing wrong with Wee Jas priests using longevity postions since death is simply delayed not thwarted.

    Just a thought...
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