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    Canonfire :: View topic - The Outer Planes in The New Canon
    Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion
    The Outer Planes in The New Canon
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    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
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    From: Bronx, NY

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    Thu May 16, 2024 4:42 pm  
    The Outer Planes in The New Canon

    The first installment of three in the second portion of The New Canon is now available.
    In this i look at the Outer Planes, their inhabitants, and the powers of Oerth that have their realms on them.
    The second installment will be my cosmogony and pre-history.
    The third installment will be two appendices, one a list of all the powers of Oerth and the other a list of various planar race rulers like demon lords and arch devils.

    https://thegreygrimoire1.wordpress.com/2024/05/16/here-is-the-first-of-three-long-articles-by-samwise-on-the-lore-of-the-planes-and-powers/
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
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    Fri May 17, 2024 10:39 am  

    In a frenzy of editing, part 2 and the first appendix are now available.

    https://thegreygrimoire1.wordpress.com/2024/05/17/behold-sams-cosmogony-has-arrived/

    The Cosmogony is my creation myth for Oerth, and the generations of the powers, along with a general outline of the epochs up to about 10,000 years ago.

    https://thegreygrimoire1.wordpress.com/2024/05/17/powers-click-below-to-download-sams-revised-index-of-powers-for-his-world-of-greyhawk-campaign-project/

    Appendix 1 is alphabetized lists of the powers by rank, with epithets, source, age, sex, portfolio, alignment, and plane. It has a minor appendix itself covering the inner planes.

    Appendix 2 when done will cover the leaders of planar races - archons, guardinals, eladrin, modrons, slaadi, devils, daemons, and demons.
    CF Admin

    Joined: Jul 28, 2001
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    Sun May 26, 2024 9:18 am  

    I've just downloaded these and want to read them immediately! However, I have to finish grading exams and submitting grades, so I'll not likely begin commenting until later in the week.

    But thanks in advance for returning and sharing your creations, and thanks to Ewan “Norker” Cummins and the Grey Grimoire editors, contributors, and artists for all your work!
    CF Admin

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    Mon Jun 03, 2024 8:08 pm  

    Initial responses to Samwise’s Cosmogony 2.4

    First, it’s a masterful synthesis, accounting for (I think) almost every deity that Gygax, Lakofka, Moore, Sargent, Holian, Mona, and others created in the original World of Greyhawk folio and boxed set, Dragon Magazine, From the Ashes, and the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer and LG Journal.

    Next, a couple comments about what seems missing—the patrons / matrons of the noniz and hobniz, whom I assume ultimately trace their lineage to Ulaa for the noniz and either Ulaa or possibly Ehlonna for the hobniz (or both).

    Also, the Cosmogony seems to exclude Corellon Larethian, Moradin, Gruumsh, and Maglubiyet, but includes several of the demi-human or humanoid gods that Roger Moore created.

    Also, this version doesn’t feature Lolth (or Lloth) or her various olven names (e.g., Araushnee, Megwandir), Demogorgon, and Orcus although it does mention a few Demon Lords (e.g., Graz’zt and Tzuggtmoy).

    Finally, this excludes the Olman and Touv pantheons.

    Regarding questions, I still need to read your "Glossography of the Flanaess - Peoples and Cultures," so this might be answered there, but I wonder how you treat the noniz and hobniz, and whether you've done away with the Seldarine completely or just the elven creator god?
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
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    Mon Jun 03, 2024 8:39 pm  

    mtg wrote:
    Initial responses to Samwise’s Cosmogony 2.4

    First, it’s a masterful synthesis, accounting for (I think) almost every deity that Gygax, Lakofka, Moore, Sargent, Holian, Mona, and others created in the original World of Greyhawk folio and boxed set, Dragon Magazine, From the Ashes, and the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer and LG Journal.


    Thank you. I did my best to get them all.
    I think the only one absolutely excluded is Stratis.
    Also, I did not even consider the new generic powers introduced in 3E/3.6 splat books.

    Quote:
    Next, a couple comments about what seems missing—the patrons / matrons of the noniz and hobniz, whom I assume ultimately trace their lineage to Ulaa for the noniz and either Ulaa or possibly Ehlonna for the hobniz (or both).


    You have correctly identified them. See below for more.

    Quote:
    Also, the Cosmogony seems to exclude Corellon Larethian, Moradin, Gruumsh, and Maglubiyet, but includes several of the demi-human or humanoid gods that Roger Moore created.


    That is correct. Again, see below.
    However, in a sense, they are still there. You just need to reference the Planes document and the list of powers to find all the entries.
    Corellon is a joint aspect of Ehlonna and Trithereon in some isolated olven communities. Moradin is a particularly dwurrow aspect of Bleredd. Gruumsh and Maglubiyet are euroz and jebline aspects of Hextor.

    Quote:
    Also, this version doesn’t feature Lolth (or Lloth) or her various olven names (e.g., Araushnee, Megwandir), Demogorgon, and Orcus although it does mention a few Demon Lords (e.g., Graz’zt and Tzuggtmoy).


    Again, correct.
    Aside from a few minor mentions, all of the demon lords, and archdevils and dukes, altradaemons, slaad lords, and a few others, are listed in the Planar Race Rulers appendix which still needs to be checked over.
    Due to the sheer number of such that is only a list with no added commentary. There are just so many, the mere list is another 30 pages or so.
    Additionally, those alternate names for Lolth are from non-Greyhawk sources and so are not included at all.

    Quote:
    Finally, this excludes the Olman and Touv pantheons.


    Correct. I use neither - the Olman are just the Suel who have become barbarous and the Touv are replaced wholly by the Simians.
    I leave it to others to work those pantheons into the setting for whoever likes them.

    Quote:
    Regarding questions, I still need to read your "Glossography of the Flanaess - Peoples and Cultures," so this might be answered there, but I wonder how you treat the noniz and hobniz, and whether you've done away with the Seldarine completely or just the elven creator god?


    The first is indeed answered there.
    The short version is: noniz are a dwurrow subrace, hobniz are "halflings" - half-human, half-fae, whose ancestors chose to live as mortals. Most fae are from Ehlonna, and thus she is the ultimate matron of the hobniz.

    As for the Seldarine, it is a non-Greyhawk construct, and so I did not use it, creating my own background.

    As a note on that and the various powers I syncretized, as I mention, this is not a dismissal of them. I think many of them are excellent creations, which is why I included many more than I syncretized or background I did not use. They are simply not a core part of the Greyhawk setting.
    Further, the divine rank of most of them is so great that they simply overshadow the Greyhawk powers. Adding a dozen more greater powers reduces the relevance of the existing ones, as does adding two dozen more intermediate powers.
    Because of those factors, I chose to combine some and reduce the rank of most of the rest.
    The names of everything other than the Touv and Olman are all there in the big list of Powers, with their sources noted. I do not use them, but anyone who prefers them should be able to easily extract them, check for their original divine rank, and add them back in using the references as a starting point.
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