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    Canonfire :: View topic - Ur-Flan/Olve-Dwurrow Overview
    Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion
    Ur-Flan/Olve-Dwurrow Overview
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    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
    Posts: 736
    From: Bronx, NY

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    Wed May 22, 2024 2:56 pm  
    Ur-Flan/Olve-Dwurrow Overview

    For the show on Vecna and the Ur-Flan tonight, I prepared this short summary of who and when the various tyrants and countries existed.

    Ur-Flan and Olve/Dwurrow Summary

    All dates are CY and most are rough estimates.
    Source references noted.

    Pre-Flan
    Hierophants of the Mountain -12500 to -800 (RtWPM)
    Torhoon -7500 (Ex Keraptis)
    Galap-Dreidel -5000 to -3000 (Inverness)
    Caerdiralor -4000 (Creighton)

    Ur-Flan
    Heraan (Woe) -2150 to -1000 (83)
    Sulm -2300/-2000 to -800 (Rary)
    Old One -1600 to -600 (83)
    Nuria -1500 to -350 (Gary)
    Tostenhca -1400 to -800 (Greyhawk Adventures
    /RtWPM)
    Kyuss -1400 to -800 (Age of Worms)
    The Eldest -1400 to -600 (Me)
    Keraptis -1300 to -1100 to 50 (RtWPM)
    Nightingale Realm (Ahlissa) -1300 to -100 (Ivid)
    Tirasqi -1200 to -142 (Ivid/LGG)
    Occluded Empire (Vecna) -1200 to -400 (Vecna – Gary, Me)
    Tycheron (Kas/Vecna) -1000 to 500 (Vecna – Gary, Me)
    Devourer (Acererak) -900 to -450 (Tomb of Horrors)
    Veralos ? to -400 (Gary)

    Olve/Dwurrow (Me)
    Arrival -2703
    Sun (Sunndi) -2593 to present
    Summer Stars (Adri) -2263 to -613
    Handmaiden (Celene) -1823 to present
    Mistress (Luna/Vesve) -1713 to -283
    Dwurrow Split -1603
    Lorekeepers -1603 to present
    Iron Guilds (Iron Hills to Sunndi) -1273 to present
    Free Holds (Flinty Hills Corusks) -1163 to present
    Union (Good Hills Crystalmists) -1053 to present
    Barrier Peaks -987 to -393
    Clan Holds (Yatils) -943 to present
    Peaks of Haven (Lortmils) -613 to present
    CF Admin

    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
    Posts: 1521
    From: Wichita, KS, USA

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    Wed May 22, 2024 7:48 pm  

    Is this also included in your new Vecna download, Sam?

    Allan.
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    Allan Grohe (grodog@gmail.com)
    http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
    Posts: 736
    From: Bronx, NY

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    Thu May 23, 2024 7:46 pm  

    It is not.
    I collected the dates from my Ancient History project and posted them as we expected to cover the Ur-Flan on that show.
    I am in the process of doing some revisions to my Ancient History, and then it has to go through editing. Hopefully it will be available next quarter as a netbook download through The Grey Grimoire like my other New Canon projects.
    CF Admin

    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
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    Wed May 29, 2024 6:36 pm  

    Excellent, and looking forward to it. Thanks! :)

    Allan.
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    Allan Grohe (grodog@gmail.com)
    http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html
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    Joined: Sep 20, 2001
    Posts: 366


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    Fri May 31, 2024 10:27 am  

    I'm looking forward to this as well.
    CF Admin

    Joined: Jul 28, 2001
    Posts: 672
    From: on the way to Bellport

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    Wed Jun 05, 2024 9:46 pm  

    For your "Olve/Dwurrow (Me)" listings, have you any thoughts about UK1's "beautiful half-elven princess, Caerwyn," and "her human lover . . . the magic user Porpherio Profoundeus."

    IMC, this has inspired nascent thoughts about pre-Migrations olven–Flan intermarriage amidst the islands of the western Azure Sea.

    N.B. Caerwyn is a Welsh name that means love, fair, and/or blessed. Also, Caer Gywn translates into “White Fortress.”

    Another way to ask this is how the Dreadwood sylvan olves figure into your thoughts.
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
    Posts: 736
    From: Bronx, NY

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    Thu Jun 06, 2024 9:01 am  

    I had forgotten to check UK1 for relevant references.
    There is definitely Flan-Olve intermarriage before the Migrations, I consider it part of the Flan having copper and bronze branches.

    As for the Olvenrealm of the Dreadwood, which for the Olve includes the Kendeen Vale (Yeomanry) and Hool Vale (Sea Princes), it is a relevant political entity, with non-existent relations with Celene. Due to Olven politics, the Sylvan Olve are better known than the High Olve of the south, which aids the High Olve in wielding significant political power behind the scenes, focused on the mission of the Dreadwalkers in the forest.
    CF Admin

    Joined: Jul 28, 2001
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    Sun Jun 09, 2024 7:59 pm  

    It sounds like you've revised your sense of the olven history from how you presented it in 2006, "The Pre-Cataclysm Era in the Sheldomar."

    At that time, you suggested that Gradsul might have been the site of an olven town that headquartered an olven military command in the Dreadwood that owed ultimate allegiance to the grey olven rulers of Celene.

    I wonder if the site of present-day Gradsul makes for a good place where olves and Flannae interacted peaceably before the Firstcomer Suel and Great Migrations . . .
    Master Greytalker

    Joined: Jun 29, 2001
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    Mon Jun 10, 2024 12:37 pm  

    Not really. The Dreadwood Olve may have had a base at Gradsul depending on how much they need to deal with the Aquatic Olve. They are still subject to the Gray Olve of Celene.
    Where I have reconsidered things is more with the Dwurrow, who now arrive in the Flanaess with the Olve.
    If the Dreadwood Olve maintained a port at Gradsul, they would have abandoned it when the Firstcomers arrived, not wanting to fight the silvery newcomers in addition to Vecna, the Zol Kell, and the arachnids of the Dreadwood.
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