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    On Thrommel's Abduction
    Posted on Tue, October 15, 2002 by Trickster
    tzelios writes "Thrommel’s abduction story is revealed, by the use of a well-established method. In the process we employ the word of the “creator”, aka E. Gary Gygax, to produce logical results. A poem tied to our story brings the old school flavour.

    Author: tzelios

    On Thrommel's Abduction; An examination of the canon
    By: tzelios (
    (Used with permission, do not redistribute without the express permission of the author)

    A. Method of Analysis
    Since there are numerous different sources of game material and authors, contradictions should be appropriately handled. The followed method in the present article is not a new one. Both Gygax and Robert Kuntz have successfully used it in the past.

    In the present article, the primacy of canon is asserted and the most consistent and ingenious method to satisfy all sources is sought. Information on the same subject, in interviews and works authored or edited by different persons or printed by different companies, is canonical according to the following order of validity: Gary Gygax, Robert Kuntz, Carl Sargent and Frank Mentzer, Eric Mona and Roger Moore, all other products by TSR, Wizards of the Coast or other companies. RJ Kuntz, in Oearth Journal, gives an example of our method. Kuntz attempted to put in line his player character, Robilar, with newly published material by TSR: Kuntz´s Robilar as played by him and described by Gygax and him is the true Robilar. The described by TSR products Robilar is his clone [OJ7]. Gary Gygax, at the next section, gives a second example of the adopted method.

    It is important to urge that, independent of the applicability of our method in real world science or matters, in a fantasy world like that of Greyhawk, the method calls for extra creativity in the use of canonical material and offers new gaming opportunities. Thus, up-to-date material is strengthened and vertically, in-depth, expanded.

    B. … At the Temple I was in …
    The most contradictory story ever present in all the gaming material, namely, the disappearance of Prince Thrommel, is detangled. In [T1-4], Iuz and the temple imprisoned Thrommel, but in the time charts of [WoG] it is said that the Scarlet Brotherhood captures the provost of Veluna. Carl Sargent made this same mistake in [FtA], treating the provost and the prince as separate people. The answer Gary gives in a discussion at [WoGFC], instead of giving his usual answer “… but the creator of the world said it …”, satisfies all sources in a very ingenious way: “How about this: The Scarlet Brotherhood captures Thrommel and sells him to Iuz and the Temple. Could be, eh?” And in another discussion he states that the Brotherhood was in the employ of Nyrond (!) [OJ12]. Given the fact that Nyrond is among the good nations of the world, the claim seems absurd. Though a deeper search in the history of Nyrond reveals that the nation passed imperialistic phases in the past, as per an introduction to Greyhawk by Roger Moore [WoGFC].

    Who could possibly be Nyrond´s agent involved in the abduction? From the mess and confusion that the disappearance has caused both to the current state of affairs in the Flanaess and to the gamers alike, over more than 20 years (!), this agent has to be a formidable one. The only such person that exists in the literature is Gellor, Gord´s friend, a high level bard. He has one eye and possesses a commanding presence at the thieves´ guild in Stoink, matching that of Arentol of Greyhawk. He also posed in the court of His Noble Grace Dunstan, Lord of Knurl as General Lord Nelbon Gellor. As Nelbon Gellor, he acted as an agent and spy for King Archbold of Nyrond, though his true liege was his cousin, the Countess Belissica, of the County of Urnst [SotOC], [SotOC, chronology and notes].

    Who could possibly be the Brotherhood’s agents that accomplish the abduction? We know well that the Brotherhood is inside the Slave Lords. The Slavers operated at the Wlild Coast area, which is neighbouring through Gnarley Forest with the Viscounty of Verbobonc [A1-4]. In 569 CY, Stalman Klim, high priest of the Earth Dragon, leaves Suderham, Pomarj. In 574 CY, Stalman Klim holds the First Council of the Nine (Slave Lords), and afterwards, he returns to Suderham with his new allies [Slav]. So Stalman Klim, together with most of the remaining Slave Lords, are the captors of Thrommel in 573 CY.

    And the story goes like this, sung preferably by Gellor:

    As I was trying to promote
    Campaign to the south I sought
    To marry the beautiful Jolene
    The two good states to join
    From Furyondy to Veluna
    I stack at Verbobonc
    At the bachelor I was sin
    At the temple I was in
    “kung” and “fu” is all I heard
    Then the mellow one-eyed bard
    At the temple I was in
    Please good god do mercy me

    It is a pitiful story, as the latest news on Thrommel is that he is infected by vampirism [RttToEE], though you may prefer to disregard this last reference.

    C. Sources
    A1-4 - Scourge of the Slavelords (D. Cook, A. Hammack, H. Johnson, T. Moldvay, L. Schick, E. Carmien)
    FtA - From the Ashes (Carl Sargent)
    RttToEE – Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil (M. Cook)
    Slav – Slavers (S.K. Reynolds, C. Pramas)
    SotOC - Saga of the Old City (E.G. Gygax)
    SotOC, chronology and notes - (Eric Mona)
    T1-4 - The Temple of Elemental Evil (E.G. Gygax, Frank Mentzer)
    tAB - The Adventure Begins (Roger Moore)
    WoG - World of Greyhawk boxed set (E.G. Gygax)
    WoGFC – World of Greyhawk Fan Club,
    Related Links
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    Re: On Thrommel's Abduction (Score: 1)
    by chatdemon ( on Tue, October 15, 2002
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    Kudos on a well thought out and documented bit of research!

    I wanted to clarify one of Tzelios' sources for those readers that are not familiar with the body of online greyhawk material.

    The WoGFC, or World of Greyhawk Fan Club, is a site administrated by Randy Richards that produced two volumes of an e-zine style collection of fan writings entitled the Greyhawk Grimoire. Randy has apparently moved on to other projects, and the site now suffers from the neglect seen in a lot of the once vibrant Greyhawk sites, but the GGs are still interesting reads for those interested in learning more about the setting.

    To check out the 'Introduction to the World of Greyhawk' article by Roger Moore that Tzelios mentioned, download the Greyhawk Grimoire vol. 1 and unzip the file, which is a collection of text, imae and sound files, and open dustsea3.txt

    For the quotes from E. Gary Gygax about Thrommel, grab the same zipfile, GGv1, and open the file sage.txt, which is a Q&A style document addressing some of the frequent questions about the setting, with answers from a range of GH sages.

    In addition, the Oerth Journal fanzine, issue 7, cited by Tzelios as OJ7, can be found here on canonfire on the Oerth Journal homepage.

    Re: On Thrommel's Abduction (Score: 1)
    by MerricB on Wed, October 16, 2002
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    Nice article. :)

    As to Thrommel's vampirism... well, nowhere in Greyhawk official lore was he rescued. I think Monte had fun with his state in the original ToEE - imagine the poor player who comes upon Thrommel in Return and thinks the vampirism is just an illusion!


    Re: On Thrommel's Abduction (Score: 1)
    by Jachyras ( on Wed, October 16, 2002
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    IMC, the players and myself (there was a different DM at the time) found Prince Thrommel when we went through the ToEE. We figured out the poem, saw through the illusion and freed the Prince. The Prince has been a strong political ally for the party (which I now DM) and has helped be a spring board for numerous adventures. The Prince also played a significant role in the war years and helped save many lives. Prince Thrommel "runs" Furyondy now with Belvor taking a smaller role advising his son on most matters of state.

    Re: On Thrommel's Abduction (Score: 0)
    by Anonymous on Wed, November 13, 2002
    An interesting article, but no mention was made of the information on Thrommel that appears in Return of the Eight.

    Also, I do not find it difficult to beleive that Nyrond was involved in Thrommel's kidnap. If one can go beyond the "all good nations help other good nations" simplicity, it is easy to see how Nyrond and Furyondy are strong rivals (or were, before the Wars). Furyondy and Veluna were poised to unite, a fact which should have made anyone in Nyrond worried. After the Wars, the threat of Iuz may make Nyrond's involvement seem misplaced, but before the Wars I find it entirely plausable.


    Re: On Thrommel's Abduction (Score: 1)
    by castlemike on Sun, December 12, 2004
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    Excellent article.

    Re: On Thrommel's Abduction (Score: 1)
    by Shalaban on Tue, August 23, 2005
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    Nice work; I see this can still go different ways...

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