Signup
Welcome to... Canonfire! World of GreyhawK
Features
Postcards from the Flanaess
Adventures
in Greyhawk
Cities of
Oerth
Deadly
Denizens
Jason Zavoda Presents
The Gord Novels
Greyhawk Wiki
#greytalk
JOIN THE CHAT
ON DISCORD
    Map of Glacial Flanaess
    Posted on Tue, March 30, 2010 by LordCeb
    boslok_the_elder writes "Before the rise of the Flan, the Suel and the Baklunish, before the first writings of the Olve and Dwar, there was ice...

    Glacial Flanaess


    Before the rise of the Flan, the Suel and the Baklunish, before the first writings of the Olve and Dwar, there was ice...


    I’ve always been intrigued with the idea that civilizations may rise and fall between the times that ice ages rule over a planet. Just as our Earth has passed through different glacial periods, I imagine that Oerth has gone through the same and during those warm times life has flourished. What I’ve focused on is what happens to cultures and civilizations as they survive (or perish) during these glacial times and how the new empires are forged from those that have survived the ice. For my latest campaign and map, this is the premise.


    In the stories of days long past, Oerth underwent an earlier cataclysm of greater proportions. The city of the gods which resided in the shadow of the 3 mountains on the largest island north of modern day Blackmore was the epicenter of this cataclysm. The destruction of the city and the creation of the scar (-12,000 cy) happened during a short but terrible war of the the gods fighting with a great evil. After the battle the gods left what was to remain of Oerth behind and returned to their homes in the stars. The fallout from this battle caused a magically infused ice age to grow rapidly upon on the planet. During this time the dragons stepped forward to become great and terrible kings and the humanoids their slaves. 99 out of every 100 humanoids died due to the cold, famine or slavery. What history that survived was stamped out by the dragons and along with it the legacy of the previous ages.


    After millennia, heros rise once again, and as the glaciers melt away so does the power of the dragons (-8,000 cy). Humanoids become more plentiful, resourceful and educated. Among them a few step forward to lead their races into history and to forge the World of Greyhawk.


    For now there is alot of undefined white on this map which hopefully will be filled in later as the campaign progresses and the glaciers are the focus since the majority of the campaign will take place on near the black scar. The lands to the south I wanted to have a more primordial feel, so all the forests and marshes are larger. The lands of Zeif are a lake filled tundra and since the Invoked Devastation hasn't happened yet, I put some hills, a river and a forest where eventually the Suel will create their empire. Now I know this example isn't a true ice age, it’s one that is created from fallout magics of the gods and only lasts for a fraction of a real ice age. So I did alot of guessing with the landscape such as the tundra and the enlarged seas at the foot of the glaciers. I’m no geologist so where the glaciers ended up are due to my imitations of Earths last glacial period and not from any real knowledge of how a glacial period might actually look like on Oerth. I would on the other-hand be interested hearing from any geologist on the matter.


    Special thanks to ‘A High History of the Oerth’ by the Man of the Cranes, (edited and published by Kyrian Darkstar, The One Sorcerer) and ‘The History of Oerth’ (OJ 1.1) by Len Lakofka and Steve Wilson. Both articles were the genesis of this project.


    -Boslok the Elder

    Thumbnail:


    HUGE 300dpi Image


    Note:
    "
     
    Related Links
    · More about Cartography & Geography
    · News by LordCeb


    Most read story about Cartography & Geography:

    Maps of the Flanaess: Shadows of The Rakers

    Article Rating
    Average Score: 5
    Votes: 3


    Please take a second and vote for this article:

    Excellent
    Very Good
    Good
    Regular
    Bad

    Options

     Printer Friendly Printer Friendly

    The comments are owned by the poster. We aren't responsible for their content.

    No Comments Allowed for Anonymous, please register

    Re: Map of Glacial Flanaess (Score: 1)
    by Kirt on Tue, March 30, 2010
    (User Info | Send a Message)
    I'm not a geologist either, but the map does beg the question of where all this ice came from.  Was it dropped down on the ground by the gods, or did it arise from the buildup of normal snowfall?  If the latter, taking that much water out of circulation (water cycle) means that the global sea level should drop, so you may want to alter coastlines a bit.  Real world example being the Berring Land bridge - paleo-Indians could walk from Asia to North America because all the Ice Age ice meant sea level was low enough that Asia-North America were connected.

    You might also want to put a large meltwater lake around the mouth of the valley of the mage.



    Re: Map of Glacial Flanaess (Score: 1)
    by boslok_the_elder on Tue, March 30, 2010
    (User Info | Send a Message) http://rpg.jerlehman.com
    I've not worked out all the details yet, but I'm thinking a very large portal was opened, possibly to a frozen level of the abyss or hell and thats bringing in cold along with the fallout of the battle are producing a ripe environment for a short ice age to happen and then melt away. How long does it take a continental glacier to melt?

    Along with your comment about the land bridge, I maybe should have made the land to the south more arid.


    ]


    Re: Map of Glacial Flanaess (Score: 1)
    by boslok_the_elder on Tue, March 30, 2010
    (User Info | Send a Message) http://rpg.jerlehman.com
    I was sorta hoping the map was going to be included in the article and not just the links, sorta like my other maps. oh well.



    Re: Map of Glacial Flanaess (Score: 1)
    by Cebrion on Fri, April 02, 2010
    (User Info | Send a Message)
    Ah.  I can probably take care of that.  If not, Gary can.  In the future, just send a moderator/admin a PM with such concerns rather than post them as a comment. 


    ]


    Re: Map of Glacial Flanaess (Score: 1)
    by Icarus on Mon, April 05, 2010
    (User Info | Send a Message) http://wkristophnolen.daportfolio.com/
    This was being taken care of.  I actually saw it when the map was in there ... but with technical updates with the new way the files are being linked/stored, there seems to be a bit of a glitch in how they are appearing.  We'll get it worked out soon enough and your fantastic maps will show up in the article ... it wouldn't be as cool looking otherwise.


    ]


    Re: Map of Glacial Flanaess (Score: 1)
    by Icarus on Sat, April 03, 2010
    (User Info | Send a Message | Journal) http://wkristophnolen.daportfolio.com/
    I have to say, "Very well done!"
    Boslok, you've done a great thing here.  It's an interesting topic and it's something that we all could use at some point in our games!  I really have always  liked the idea of a "glacial" game in GH ... whether in an old Ice Age, or in a contemporary game set in the far north.

    And, aside rom any geological complaints, yours is "a magically infused ice age".  I definately like the map, as an artist, and I would love to see you contribute other stuff to Canonfire!  There are few that have an inclination toward cartography, and I think you do it well.  It reminds me of the Great Paizo poster-map from a few years ago. 

    Great work Boslok!  Keep it up!




    Re: Map of Glacial Flanaess (Score: 1)
    by boslok_the_elder on Sun, April 04, 2010
    (User Info | Send a Message) http://rpg.jerlehman.com
    Thanks Icarus

    I did try and keep the map generic so that others could use it for other reasons than which I am. I've posted a few other maps here in the past, Rel Astra, Dragon's Head area, its been a few years but If your interested check them out, I always enjoy hearing new input.


    ]


    Re: Map of Glacial Flanaess (Score: 1)
    by Icarus on Mon, April 05, 2010
    (User Info | Send a Message) http://wkristophnolen.daportfolio.com/
    In fact, I did take a look at them (actually copied them to my gaming folder in fact), and at your website in general.  Glad to see that you're more active again, and that you're submitting to Canonfire as well

    If you're not careful, I might just pull you into the stable of marvelous artists and cartographers that we have here at CF!  There's a lot of talent, and we are trying to get CF! much more illustrated. 

    Keep up the good work, and it's good to have you around again.  :D


    ]


    Re: Map of Glacial Flanaess (Score: 1)
    by grodog on Thu, May 06, 2010
    (User Info | Send a Message) http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html
    Very nice work, boslok!  I'm quite fond of glacial-age Greyhawk too, and would be interested in your thoughts on Black Ice and a glacial age.  I've pondered the idea of Black Ice glaciers covering the lands as far south as the Nyr Dyv (and that they are what carved out the large lakes, perhaps; and perhaps leaving remnant of magical black ice power behind, which spawned the Isles of Woe in the dim past). 

    Anyway, did you think about doing a Black Ice Age at all?  Just curious :D

    Allan.



    Re: Map of Glacial Flanaess (Score: 1)
    by boslok_the_elder on Tue, May 11, 2010
    (User Info | Send a Message) http://rpg.jerlehman.com
    For this particular map I was thinking along the lines that from the 2 scar areas the lands of black are going to be their remnants, I located them where the lands of black ice are.

    That is an interesting idea. What do you think would generate the black ice, natural or magical.


    ]


    Re: Map of Glacial Flanaess (Score: 1)
    by Free_City_Assassin on Fri, May 07, 2010
    (User Info | Send a Message)
    I hate to inject reality into a really pretty map, but wouldn't the sea level drop when that much of the planet's water was tied up in ice sheets?



    Re: Map of Glacial Flanaess (Score: 1)
    by Difonix on Sat, May 08, 2010
    (User Info | Send a Message) http://www.meetup.com/difonix
    The geologic "correctness" of most fantasy worlds is a far cry from Earth-like reality outside of the geomorphology being familiar.  Mountains are mountains, rivers are rivers, and seas are salty (usually).  The laws of nature are applied as best as possible, the lands are populated with critters, and the campaign is off and running.  Yet the placement of minerals and vast limestone reserves to keep those "dungeons" lively are often a head scratcher, never mind the vast volcanic chain of mountains in the interior of a large continent!  So, be as it may that Oerik is not scientifically sound in it's geography it really doesn't matter how or why a glacial period came about and to what extent it altered the climate of Oerik (let alone Oerth).  If the campaign's premise is on an ice world, have fun with it (may I suggest Michael Moor*****'s The Ice Schooner as inspirational reading)!

    Now, if you'd like me apply by Bachelors of Science in Geology degree to your map, I can certainly make some comments but it's really moot.  Yes, sea levels would be lower (Lendore Isle would be connected to the mainland, for example).  Terminal moraines should be present with melt water lakes dammed behind them.  White Plume (assuming it's a geologic hot spot like Hawaii or Yellowstone) should be habitable, perhaps surrounded by a massive melt lake that eventually "escapes" and erodes the famous canyon nearby.  The warm ocean currents that keep the northern Baklunish lands temperature would likely be shut down by the cold northern seas; your tundra would likely be starting in the Sueloise lands with ice to the north.  The forests would be massive, not patchy as depicted, and made entirely of coniferous trees (think of the forests of the Canadian Shield or Siberia).  Hepmonaland would be temperate and have more in common with the New England than Mexico. 

    These are just a few things I'm throwing out there off the top of my head.  Oerth would certainly be a much different world and the scale of glaciation you're talking about, I don't think you've altered the landforms enough.  But, this is a fantasy world so....who cares!  I love your cartographic style!   


    ]


    Re: Map of Glacial Flanaess (Score: 1)
    by Difonix on Sat, May 08, 2010
    (User Info | Send a Message) http://www.meetup.com/difonix
    The geologic "correctness" of most fantasy worlds is a far cry from Earth-like reality outside of the geomorphology being familiar.  Mountains are mountains, rivers are rivers, and seas are salty (usually).  The laws of nature are applied as best as possible, the lands are populated with critters, and the campaign is off and running.  Yet the placement of minerals and vast limestone reserves to keep those "dungeons" lively are often a head scratcher, never mind the vast volcanic chain of mountains in the interior of a large continent!  So, be as it may that Oerik is not scientifically sound in it's geography it really doesn't matter how or why a glacial period came about and to what extent it altered the climate of Oerik (let alone Oerth).  If the campaign's premise is on an ice world, have fun with it (may I suggest Michael Moor*****'s The Ice Schooner as inspirational reading)!

    Now, if you'd like me apply by Bachelors of Science in Geology degree to your map, I can certainly make some comments but it's really moot.  Yes, sea levels would be lower (Lendore Isle would be connected to the mainland, for example).  Terminal moraines should be present with melt water lakes dammed behind them.  White Plume (assuming it's a geologic hot spot like Hawaii or Yellowstone) should be habitable, perhaps surrounded by a massive melt lake that eventually "escapes" and erodes the famous canyon nearby.  The warm ocean currents that keep the northern Baklunish lands temperature would likely be shut down by the cold northern seas; your tundra would likely be starting in the Sueloise lands with ice to the north.  The forests would be massive, not patchy as depicted, and made entirely of coniferous trees (think of the forests of the Canadian Shield or Siberia).  Hepmonaland would be temperate and have more in common with the New England than Mexico. 

    These are just a few things I'm throwing out there off the top of my head.  Oerth would certainly be a much different world and the scale of glaciation you're talking about, I don't think you've altered the landforms enough.  But, this is a fantasy world so....who cares!  I love your cartographic style! 

    ...I think this is in the right spot now...



    Re: Map of Glacial Flanaess (Score: 1)
    by boslok_the_elder on Mon, May 10, 2010
    (User Info | Send a Message) http://rpg.jerlehman.com
    You sir are correct!
    If fact this has really been bugging me for the last couple of months. When I first set out to do the map for my idea for a campaign I really didn't know how deep over my head I was getting. I drew the map with my own ignorance and flew with it. When I was about done and needed inspiration for the look of the glaciers I of course jumped on to wikipedia and started looking for photos/drawings and when I started reading, well I sorta realized my interpretation wasn't all that accurate. At that time I was still working out the story behind the Ice and felt I could use magic to cover up the glaring holes and finished it.
    Now 2 months later, its still bugs me. Now that I’ve been mulling around in my head the little research I’ve done I actually think it would make a much more interesting map if it was more real world accurate. I dislike using magic as a crutch to cover all of the mistakes.
    I’m taking your input, plus reading up some more and maybe I’ll hit up a friend of mine who knows a little about this and crank out another map.



    Map of Glacial Flanaess (Score: 1)
    by Tiffinki on Fri, May 14, 2010
    (User Info | Send a Message)
    Boslok,

    If you want it, help is on the way. Viewing your map set me off on the subject, and I've been working on a Campaign Cartographer 3 map of the Flanaess in the grip of an ice age, inspired by yours.

    In actual game play, however, your map would be excellent as a player handout, even if the DM had a CC3 map. Absolutely convincing.

    I've edited maps before - heck, I once ran a campaign where the PCs went back in time to about a month before the Twin Cataclysms (and ended up nearly getting killed, because they were some distance east of Tovag Baragu).

    To run that adventure, I found a map of the Flanaess in CC2 (CC3 was not out yet at that time), and edited it to reflect how the Flanaess was different a thousand years back. That was an easy, if time-consuming, edit; it was mostly a matter of erasing the nation-states from circa 580 CY and enlarging the forests a little (I assumed that a lot of lumbering had taken place prior to 580).

    Note: The original CC2 map of the Flanaess was drawn by one of Profantasy's own employees. It's still in their library.

    Creating an ice age map is proving to be more of a challenge, but I like the way it's shaping up. And, on that topic....

    Difonix,

    Although, as you pointed out yourself, it isn't a terribly big deal, but I liked your comments about how, realistically, the land would change during an ice age. Can you tell me more? I'm an old hand at fantasy mapping, but I'm no geologist.

    On the map I'm working on, I've expanded the coastlines of the Flanaess to a degree, but not too much - I'm mindful that the uncountable weight of ice age glaciers would press the land down, even as the oceans receded. Also, the mountain ranges are untouched. No geological feature is eternal, but mountains can make a better claim on that than coastlines. Eight thousand years is nothing to them. (I'm not so sure of that with regard to hills, though).

    Two questions for sure - how far north could forests exist? I can easily imagine them being much larger, like you said, but where would their northern limit be? (If you would be kind enough, I would like to hear your estimate for that, considering both regular glaciers and also for black glaciers). And, where would mixed and deciduous forests be able to grow, if anywhere?

    Thanks, guys! All comments and information welcome.

    Tiffinki




    ]


    Re: Map of Glacial Flanaess (Score: 1)
    by Difonix on Fri, June 18, 2010
    (User Info | Send a Message) http://www.meetup.com/difonix
    My apologies for the delay in responding...I've been on the road since May 18th and venturing to "Master Time Wasting" sites such as Canonfire on the company dime is highly frowned upon...

    The biggest factor in a glacial period is the overall drop of world-wide temperatures as they increased reflectance of the white ice/snow of the sun's energy would keep mean temperatures roughly 5-10 degrees cooler.  As such, the latitudinal shift of all ecosystems towards the equator would be quite pronounced, potentially reducing the tropics to isolated islands surrounded by warm oceans.  The vast bulk of the continents would be dominated by coniferous forests north/south of 20° latitude depending on your hemisphere (let's assume north for Oerik).  0° to 20° latitude would be a mixture of conifers (pine dominant) and hardwoods (oaks, ipps, chestnut).  The taiga of Siberia/Canada would be the situation found in the isolated pockets of soil north of 40° latitude.  The continental glaciers stretched consistently to 40° in the Americas so I'd use that as a guide for Oerik (unless you want to make the freeze deeper or lighter); remember that alpine glaciers would dominate all mountain ranges south.  At the "foot" of these glaciers the forests are not necessarily stunted like the taiga as the belief is the glaciers were like massive sky scrappers at the edge gouging up the ground before them much like your foot would do on an area rug's edge.  The ice didn't affect the micro-climate beyond a 50 mile buffer most likely (depending on wind patterns of course). 

    Your coast lines will vary depending on your interpretation of Oerik's shores and whether they are near a spreading mid-oceanic ridge (I'd guess this) versus a subduction zone.  Find a map of the Earth during the last ice age and where it's believed the paleo shores were.  The east coast of America was a long way from it's current spot while the west coast wasn't too much further away (Channel Islands of SoCal were attached though).  The Spindrift Isles and Lendore Isles would certainly have been attached to the continent (perhaps the Lendore Elves migrated during this ice age!).  The Azure Sea could have been an inland sea if the land from the Tilvanot Peninsula reached the Olman Islands and the Amedio.  I like the concept of the ice sheets creating the basins of the large interior lakes of Oerik and a ice dam's breaching creating the Great Rift makes good geologic sense to explain that gash on the land (erosional waters acting like a drill until the "Underoerth" was breached and the melt waters gushed into the Oerth core forming the great oceans of the Underoerth).

    Frankly, I'd need to have your input on what you think the Black Ice is before I'd throw out any suggestions on range.  As for plant life, taiga would not be much further north than 30° in protected sites (geothermal activity preventing the land from freezing year-round, for example).  Pockets of peat and tundra would be possible on exposed mountains (south facing aspects where the sun's energy would melt the snow regularly).

    I hope that covers the basics for now.  I look forward to seeing your efforts with CC3.  An icy Oerth is an entertaining prospect.


    ]



    Canonfire! is a production of the Thursday Group in assocation with GREYtalk and Canonfire! Enterprises

    Contact the Webmaster.  Long Live Spidasa!


    Greyhawk Gothic Font by Darlene Pekul is used under the Creative Commons License.

    PHP-Nuke Copyright © 2005 by Francisco Burzi. This is free software, and you may redistribute it under the GPL. PHP-Nuke comes with absolutely no warranty, for details, see the license.
    Page Generation: 0.29 Seconds