So here's a sample (about 1/12th of what I've done so far) of a comprehensive timeline I've been working on that includes events and sources that aren't in Steve Wilson's Greychrondex (All hail Steve Wilson!).
What I'm interested in as far as response, as well as any questions or other remarks people might have is -
* Do you think this is a worthwhile project?
* If so what form should it be presented in? Right now I'm doing it in html. What you can't see from the sample is that I've color coded events, somewhat in the manner of the Greychrondex, to indicate dates that are approximations and others that conflict with other sources, pointing out the ones that are most likely wrong dates.
* Would anybody like to help? This could be anything, from proof-reading, to checking (and arguing with me about) approximate dates, many of which I've "best guessed" at, as well as double-checking dates I've converted from non-Common Year calendars. Also, if anybody wants to dig into some of the sources and become a partner in this project I would have no problem with that.
Here's the sample -
? "Thousand's of years" before the arrival of humans in the Flanaess, bear-sized predators known as grigaur become extinct there, possibly through an environmental cataclysm or by illness. LGJ 02 "Enchiridion of the Fiend Sage: Second Report" p. 25-26
c. -14,010 Sometime before this point in time Exag is abandoned by the race of Crafters. DNG 145 "Exag, City of Clay" p. 49
c. -4,000 Refugees from the vile Flan kingdom of Caerdiralor on the Dragonshead Peninsula (Onnwal), fleeing from the magical destruction of their capital Myrsyrna, land on the coast of the grasslands north of the Sea of Gearnat (The Bright Desert). Unable to escape through the Abbor Alz and hunted by the native nomadic Flan horse tribes, the refugees are driven into hiding. "Mysterious Places: Dominions of the Flannae", WoTC website - http://69.8.198.251/default.asp?x=lg/lgmp/20080429a, and LGJ 21 (DNG 98) "Into the Bright Desert".
-2660 Beginning of Baklunish Hegira calendar (1 BH), marking the beginning of an exodus from the far west by the Baklunish people. LGG p. 13
c. -2660 The Baklunish hero Azor'alq defends the First Dynasty royal family from the minions of Darkness that assail them during the Hegira. In this exodus the Baklunish people traveled eastward over the desolate western Tyurzi Mountains, fleeing their defiled homeland. LGJ 03 "Blood of Heroes" p. 9
-2150 First year of Flannae Tracking calendar. PGtG p. 14
c. -2010 The Flan people spread across the Eastern Oerik (Flanaess) continent. In what is now northwestern Perrenland, a Flan tribe led by a powerful warlord named Exag, fleeing a horde of hostile lizardfolk, stumble upon a city that was built by the Crafter race. An old woman in the tribe, Prizin'ha, wins the day by sacrificing herself at the top of one of the Crafter pyramids, summoning an army of earth elementals that defeat the lizardfolk. DNG 145 "Exag, City of Clay" p. 49
? Fabled City of Dar-Kesh Anam exists. It is the birthplace of the saga hero Molaho Khem, location of the first union between man and dragon, resting place of the Five Fold Deity, and the final refuge of the Sisterhood of Balash-Kopeh. As near as scholars can guess it existed either in the lowlands of ancient Itar or a vast mountain valley west of Mur. LGJ 01 "Places of Mystery" p. 7
c. – 1900 CY Under the tutoring of the semi-divine Vathris, the six tribes of the region that will one day be the Bright Desert form six kingdoms – Durha, Itar, Sulm, Ronhass, Rhugha, and Truun. The Sulm, influenced by the remnants of the dark priests of the Caerdiralor begin conquering their neighbors. "Places of Mystery: Dominions of the Flannae", DNG # 98 "Into the Bright Desert", Rary the Traitor, Blight on Bright Sands Sourcebook, LGJ 03 "Blood of Heroes" p.15.
c. -1400 The Sulm conquer all their neighbors except Itar, which is their only rival in strength. "Places of Mystery: Dominions of the Flannae", DNG # 98 "Into the Bright Desert", Rary the Traitor, Blight on Bright Sands Sourcebook, LGJ 03 "Blood of Heroes" p.15.
c. - 1240 The living Flan demi-god Vathris leads the kingdom of Itar in a 30 year war against Sulm. LGJ 03 "Blood of Heroes" p. 15
c. -1210 The Sulm defeat the Itar on the Plain of Spears, killing Vathris. They then invoke an earthquake that causes the Itari capital of Sennerae to fall into the sea of Gearnat. Under the influence of internal corruption, Sulm begins to decline. "Places of Mystery: Dominions of the Flannae", DNG # 98 "Into the Bright Desert", Rary the Traitor, Blight on Bright Sands Sourcebook, LGJ 03 "Blood of Heroes" p.15.
c. -1125 At or sometime before this point Queen Ehlissa founds the Flan kingdom of Ahlissa in the southeastern Flanaess on the southern shores of Relmor Bay. Her most prized possession is her Marvelous Nightingale, which was created by Xagy and the goddess Joramy. Ehlissa rules for several centuries, during which time the Nightingale never excapes its confinement. LGG p. 13, 1e DMG p. 160
c. -650 The dragon turtle Xoshour first becomes a menace to shipping in the Dramidj Ocean. LGJ 05 "The Rock of the West" p. 13
-644 Oeridian legends say that the strongest of several Oeridian nations in the far West were oppressed by the servants of evil deities, until they were freed by the priestess Johydee. She tricked the Oeridian's oppressors into creating a magical mask which she used to defeat them. Following a prophecy of Johydee, the Oeridians flee their home in the far west marking the beginning (1 OR) of Oeridian Reckoning. They eventually settle in lands east of the Baklunish Empire (Ull). LGG p. 23, LGJ 03 "Blood of Heroes" p. 11
? Yeshir (halfling hounds) are bred in the Suloise Empire for the hunting of halflings. Halfling meat was considered a delicacy by the Suel and the nobility used yeshirs to dig the small humanoids out of their burrows. LGJ 24 (DNG106), "Beasts of the Scarlet Brotherhood" pp. 90-91.
-485 Beginning of the Baklunish-Suloise Wars. WGG p. 9
-466 Humanoid mercenaries are first employed in the Baklunish-Suloise Wars. In years to come they begin raiding the lands of the Oeridian tribes. WGG 9, LGG p. 13
c. -465 A council of Oeridian hetmen, heeding shamanic advice which views the depredations of the humanoid raiders as a sign to continue the journey eastward begun 179 years previously, lead the Oeridian tribes to begin migrating into the Flanaess. LGG p. 13
-458 Oerid migrations east at peak point. WGG p. 9
-447 Suloise migrations begin. WGG p. 9 Suloise immigrants bring yeshir (halfling hounds) with them to the Flanaess. LGJ 24 (DNG106), "Beasts of the Scarlet Brotherhood" pp. 91.
c. 425 Dhabiya is founded in the Satrapy of Ghayar in the Baklunish Empire. LGJ 05 "The Rock of the West" p. 16
-422 The Twin Cataclysms. WGG p. 9, LGG p. 13
c. - 422 Baklunish survivors of the Invoked Devastation are enslaved by now unemployed orcish mercenaries in the city of Mukhazin. LGJ 05 "The Rock of the West" p. 20
A l'Asran (Pelor), a being bathed in sunlight, grants the legendary Cup and Talisman to the prophet Al'Akbar. Foundation of the Exalted Ones, the order of paladins serving the faith of Al'Akbar. LGJ 23 (DNG104), "Paladins of Greyhawk: More Holy Warriors of the Flanaess" p. 106.
c. -414 The Flan of the Flanaess are "driven from their lands by Oeridian and Suloise invaders, fleeing magical cataclysms, far to the west." Presumably, the author meant "more than 1000 years since" rather than "more than 2000 years since." All other calculated dates in ItU will be from the corrected time. ItU p. 3
c. -375 Niole Dra is founded by House Neheli as the seat of government for the Duchy of Dorlin, which the head of their house leads. Gollunfane, the first citadel of what will become Dorglast Castle is constructed some 90 miles northwest of Niole Dra. LGJ 01"The Kingdom of Keoland" p. 10-11
-368 Gradsul, "Haven of the Suel" is founded by the House of Rhola at the mouth of the Sheldomar River. LGJ 01 "The Kingdom of Keoland" p. 12, LGG p. 64
-365 The Aerdi, and Oeridian tribe reach the western shores of the Nyr Dyv. Word of their coming causes the citizens of the Flan citadel of Veralos ( In Rift Canyon) to abandon their homes in panic. LGJ 09 “Place of Mystery: Spinecastle and Veralos” p. 90
c. -350 The hero Sellanus of the Suloise refugee house of Zelrad loses his magic sword Vilharian in a duel with Kelanen, Prince of Swords near present day Cryllor. LGJ04 "Silent Sorcery: the Silent Ones of Keoland" p. 17
What I'm interested in as far as response, as well as any questions or other remarks people might have is -
* Do you think this is a worthwhile project?
Boy howdy, yes!
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* If so what form should it be presented in? Right now I'm doing it in html. What you can't see from the sample is that I've color coded events, somewhat in the manner of the Greychrondex, to indicate dates that are approximations and others that conflict with other sources, pointing out the ones that are most likely wrong dates.
Work with what you feel most comfortable with... It can always be converted to other formats later.
Quote:
* Would anybody like to help? This could be anything, from proof-reading, to checking (and arguing with me about) approximate dates, many of which I've "best guessed" at, as well as double-checking dates I've converted from non-Common Year calendars. Also, if anybody wants to dig into some of the sources and become a partner in this project I would have no problem with that.
I'd love to help, but I'm a bit swamped with the current projects already on my plate.
* If so what form should it be presented in? Right now I'm doing it in html. What you can't see from the sample is that I've color coded events, somewhat in the manner of the Greychrondex, to indicate dates that are approximations and others that conflict with other sources, pointing out the ones that are most likely wrong dates.
Whatever works best for you, BUT I think the Great Library of Greyhawk wiki would also be a fine place, so long as it sticks to canon.
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* Would anybody like to help? This could be anything, from proof-reading, to checking (and arguing with me about) approximate dates, many of which I've "best guessed" at, as well as double-checking dates I've converted from non-Common Year calendars. Also, if anybody wants to dig into some of the sources and become a partner in this project I would have no problem with that.
Well, posting it to the wiki would make it more likely that at least two of us (Rip & myself) would at least occasionally help out. There already is a partial timeline page, but ideally it would be broken up into several pages, given the amount of content out there. http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=World_of_Greyhawk_Timeline
A couple comments on your sample:
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c. -4,000 Refugees from the vile Flan kingdom of Caerdiralor on the Dragonshead Peninsula (Onnwal), fleeing from the magical destruction of their capital Myrsyrna, land on the coast of the grasslands north of the Sea of Gearnat (The Bright Desert). Unable to escape through the Abbor Alz and hunted by the native nomadic Flan horse tribes, the refugees are driven into hiding. "Mysterious Places: Dominions of the Flannae", WoTC website - http://69.8.198.251/default.asp?x=lg/lgmp/20080429a, and LGJ 21 (DNG 98) "Into the Bright Desert".
I would place the duration of Caerdiralor from c. -4358 to c. -4217, as it "rose & fell" 4000 years "before the golden sun of the Aerdi rose in the east and the rampant lion of the Rhola and Neheli crushed Vecna’s undead legions." Assuming the rise of Aerdy means -217 CY & Vecna was betrayed circa -358 CY.
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c. -2010 The Flan people spread across the Eastern Oerik (Flanaess) continent. In what is now northwestern Perrenland, a Flan tribe led by a powerful warlord named Exag, fleeing a horde of hostile lizardfolk, stumble upon a city that was built by the Crafter race. An old woman in the tribe, Prizin'ha, wins the day by sacrificing herself at the top of one of the Crafter pyramids, summoning an army of earth elementals that defeat the lizardfolk. DNG 145 "Exag, City of Clay" p. 49
I put this event at c. -2004. I got there by subtracting 2601 (to account for the lack of a year 0) from 597 CY (the assumed in-campaign date of the article. Granted, 6 years really doesn't matter much in the big picture, but I'm anal like that. :)
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c. – 1900 CY Under the tutoring of the semi-divine Vathris, the six tribes of the region that will one day be the Bright Desert form six kingdoms – Durha, Itar, Sulm, Ronhass, Rhugha, and Truun. The Sulm, influenced by the remnants of the dark priests of the Caerdiralor begin conquering their neighbors. "Places of Mystery: Dominions of the Flannae", DNG # 98 "Into the Bright Desert", Rary the Traitor, Blight on Bright Sands Sourcebook, LGJ 03 "Blood of Heroes" p.15.
Here's me being anal again: I figured this at c. -1910 CY, which I got by subtracting 2501 from 591 CY (based on Mona's "Reflections in Silica," which was cut from the LGG).
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c. -1400 The Sulm conquer all their neighbors except Itar, which is their only rival in strength. "Places of Mystery: Dominions of the Flannae", DNG # 98 "Into the Bright Desert", Rary the Traitor, Blight on Bright Sands Sourcebook, LGJ 03 "Blood of Heroes" p.15.
c. - 1240 The living Flan demi-god Vathris leads the kingdom of Itar in a 30 year war against Sulm. LGJ 03 "Blood of Heroes" p. 15
c. -1210 The Sulm defeat the Itar on the Plain of Spears, killing Vathris. They then invoke an earthquake that causes the Itari capital of Sennerae to fall into the sea of Gearnat. Under the influence of internal corruption, Sulm begins to decline. "Places of Mystery: Dominions of the Flannae", DNG # 98 "Into the Bright Desert", Rary the Traitor, Blight on Bright Sands Sourcebook, LGJ 03 "Blood of Heroes" p.15.
I don't have the BoBS sourcebook, but I did figure that Sulm began its centuries-long “slide toward decadence” c. -1410 CY. [“Reflections in Silica”: “Some 2000 years ago, the kingdom’s evil became too much for even itself, and it began a plodding slide toward decadence and, finally, destruction.” This date was determined by subtracting 2001 from 591 CY. See also: “Into the Bright Desert,” 22: “Sulmish society stagnated for centuries as decadence and evil grew into the hearts of her people. . . .]
I also figured Shattados got the Scorpion Crown & about -913 (Rary the Traitor, 15, 22; “Into the Bright Desert,” 22), & the transformation of the Grass Sea into the Bright Desert was complete by c. -903. (“Mysterious Places: Dominions of the Flannae”: “In the fifteen centuries since it was formed, the sands of the Bright Desert have scoured much of the Great Tribes monuments and buildings from the Oerth.” This date was determined by subtracting 1501 from 598 CY. See also: “Into the Bright Desert,” 22: “Within a decade the grasslands were dead, . . . buried beneath an insidious, unstoppable tide of sand, . . . and what had once been Sulm became the Bright Desert.”)
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c. -1125 At or sometime before this point Queen Ehlissa founds the Flan kingdom of Ahlissa in the southeastern Flanaess on the southern shores of Relmor Bay. Her most prized possession is her Marvelous Nightingale, which was created by Xagy and the goddess Joramy. Ehlissa rules for several centuries, during which time the Nightingale never excapes its confinement. LGG p. 13, 1e DMG p. 160
I have this date for Xagy and Joramy creating the Nightengale, not necessarily for the founding of Ahlissa. It is also possible that Ahlissa wasn't founded until c. -1109. See The Free State of Onnwal (2002), 111: “[Queen Ehlissa] reputedly lived 17 centuries ago when she ruled a Flannish kingdom in the vicinity of the present-day Kingdom of Ahlissa from which the Oeridian kingdom gets its name.” The date of circa -1109 was determined by subtracting 1701 years from 592 CY, the date of the source (see inside front cover).
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-365 The Aerdi, and Oeridian tribe reach the western shores of the Nyr Dyv. Word of their coming causes the citizens of the Flan citadel of Veralos ( In Rift Canyon) to abandon their homes in panic. LGJ 09 “Place of Mystery: Spinecastle and Veralos” p. 90
I have this as -366. Did you account for the lack of a year zero when you converted? The Flan date in the source is 1785 FT.
Thanks, Azzy for the response and Rob for checking all the dates and suggestions! I was being a little less anal about some of the older dates, rounding down for the approximation. I figured with "about a thousand years ago" and things like that why not, but there's no reason not to be more anal about it as long as people know it's an approximation.
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