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    Canonfire :: View topic - Is "Queen of Spiders" based on Sterichs history?
    Canonfire Forum Index -> World of Greyhawk Discussion
    Is "Queen of Spiders" based on Sterichs history?
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    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jan 12, 2013
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    From: Lublin, Poland

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    Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:58 am  
    Is "Queen of Spiders" based on Sterichs history?

    A question is in the topic name - is "Queen of Spiders" supermodule based on war with Giand King Galmorr in 584 CY? Or maybe without timeline?

    Because I preper to run it and now I got 591 CY with Quarchard missing, and his son Traian ( non-canon ) joining PC party to return Istivin. If "Queen of Spiders" take place ealier in offciail timeline I need to make up a way to send PCs in to past. Cool
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Nov 22, 2007
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    From: Denton, Tx

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    Sun Sep 08, 2013 1:05 pm  

    I'm trying to remember off the top of my head from the super modules
    TOEE - 579 CY
    Slavelords - 580 CY
    Queen of Spiders - 581 CY

    But since it's your campaign you could run it in any year you please.
    Apprentice Greytalker

    Joined: Jan 12, 2013
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    Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:28 am  

    The thing is I have in my Sterich's history two major events descirbed in Living Greyhawk Gazetteer and Istivin: City of Shadows from Dungeon #117:

    1. Lolth's put a black hemisphere on Keolant Keep in 575 CY.
    It looks like it desciription of "Queen of Spiders" module.

    2. Giant King Galmorr raids Sterich in 583 CY.

    It's... weird. Confused Cyrusalthantas where is this supermodule list?
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:04 pm  

    While the three 'supermodules' are designed to be run back-to-back, other material seems to place the whole GDQ adventure in 576 CY (the Istivin adventures go with that premise) - the original Village of Hommlet makes an indirect reference to the events, and the three series were otherwise disconnected in their original form.
    The invasion by Galmorr was part of the Greyhawk Wars storyline. Even more confusing, the G series is included with "Against the Giants: The Liberation of Geoff" which is set 591+ CY and deals with the aftermath of that invasion.
    Temple of Elemental Evil is definitely set 579 CY, as the original T1 module indicated this. Slavelords had no initial placement, but the supermodule sets it specifically one year after TOEE, which I believe has been generally accepted.
    I don't think you'll have much trouble integrating with other material if you're running GDQ in 591 CY, other than the Vault of the Drow material (set mostly after a drow civil war which changes the make-up of the Vault)
    There is also an Expedition to the Demonweb Pits, a sort-of sequel to GDQ and one of the final 3E adventures published.
    Adept Greytalker

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    Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:30 pm  

    Regarding Queen of the Spiders: http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Queen_of_the_Spiders
    "The original modules assumed these adventures were completed separately, however, as the pregenerated tournament characters from the individual Slave Lord modules (A1, A2, A3, and A4) are not the same as those in the original modules which were later compiled into GDQ1-7 (G1, G2, G3, D1, D2, D3, and Q1). Further canonical discrepancies appeared in Dungeon #117's (2004) "Touch of the Abyss" and "Istivin: City of Shadows," both by Greg A. Vaughan and Erik Mona. The two works placed Queen of the Spiders in 576 CY (pages 38 and 43, counting back 18 years from 594 CY), whereas Sean K. Reynolds and Chris Pramas had dated the Slave Lords series to 580 CY in Slavers (2000)'."

    I would ignore the 576 date in the Istivin modules, as a 576 date for Lolth's invasion creates far too many continuity problems. I'd stick with 579 for ToEE, & 580 for GDQ.

    And no, the giant invasions of G1-3 are not the same as those that took place during the GH wars.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Wed Oct 02, 2013 2:19 pm  

    I'm curious - what problems arise (other than conflicting with the 2E ordering of the supermodules) with setting GDQ prior to the other two?

    IIRC, the original T1 had an offhand comment to the end of GDQ that indicated the events were prior.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:35 pm  

    So best date for GDQ is 580 CY, but in what time is best to start - begining of winter, mid spring, end of summer? I want to time travel my players so precise date would be great. Cool
    GreySage

    Joined: Jul 26, 2010
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    Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:51 am  

    wyrdhamster wrote:
    So best date for GDQ is 580 CY, but in what time is best to start - begining of winter, mid spring, end of summer? I want to time travel my players so precise date would be great. Cool


    One possible consideration is the effects of the weather during the various stages of the Giants campaign, but also the time it will take to complete each stage.

    A very cautious party may take six months to a year to overcome any one giant lair, but most parties will complete the task in no more than a month or two. So, do you want the PCs to assault the Steading of the hill giants in the driest part of the summer when burning down the Steading will be slightly easier, or would you rather have them assault it during one of the rainy seasons, spring or fall? Do you want to make their assault upon the Glacial Rift of the frost giants extremely difficult by forcing them to go about it in the dead of winter, or do you want to allow them an easier time of it by planning it to occur in the summer? Since the Hall of the fire giants is all underground, it doesn't matter much what season it is attacked, unless you want to play up the PCs' attempts to survive in a small cave between forays into the Hall.

    SirXaris

    Edited: Changed 'all' to 'allow'. Confused SX
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    Last edited by SirXaris on Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:23 am; edited 1 time in total
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:13 pm  

    wyrdhamster wrote:
    So best date for GDQ is 580 CY, but in what time is best to start - begining of winter, mid spring, end of summer? I want to time travel my players so precise date would be great. Cool


    I now come to conclusion it could be not the best date. If go with 580 CY as GDQ year, then I need to ""pack" Galmorr's invasion and missing of Quarchard in 11 years, not 15 I would have with 576 CY as start of GDQ. Also, when then put Machiones Emenodav in Sterich to return there? Many time line problems, you see.

    SirXaris wrote:
    One possible consideration is the effects of the weather during the various stages of the Giants campaign, but also the time it will take to complete each stage.


    I was thinking about Day of Retribution, 13th of Readyreat. This way they start Steading of Hill Giants in late fall, got 1,5 month to true winter for Assault on Glacial Rift and rest of campaing is in 576/580. Cool
    Adept Greytalker

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    Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:30 pm  

    blackmyron wrote:
    I'm curious - what problems arise (other than conflicting with the 2E ordering of the supermodules) with setting GDQ prior to the other two?

    IIRC, the original T1 had an offhand comment to the end of GDQ that indicated the events were prior.


    GDQ1-7 was released during 1E and even has a chapter titled "Revenge of the Slave Lords."

    Also, IIRC, Lolth's black dome that she put over Sterich is referenced in the Shadows over Istivin story arc, but that event originated in GDQ1-7, not the original modules.

    Rather than involve time travel, the most efficient thing IMO is to adjust the dates in the Istivin story arc.
    Apprentice Greytalker

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    Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:58 pm  

    Robbastard wrote:
    Rather than involve time travel, the most efficient thing IMO is to adjust the dates in the Istivin story arc.


    But how, as every Sterich NPC in game has mentioned that 15 years before there was a black dome over Istivin? And one player started whole game, just to get glimps in Lolth knowlegde ( he's motivation to go to Caves of Chaos ). Unmaking it would unmake whole game world logic... Confused

    Also, Istivin: City of Shadows states that Verbane, Chief Wizard of March earn his position by helping wih reclaiming the Sterich. In GDQ 1-7, in Istivin section, there is mentioned mage Lashton, Keoland's King Agent - are those two persons one and the same? If not, where is Verbane in time of GDQ 1-7?
    Adept Greytalker

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    Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:41 pm  

    wyrdhamster wrote:
    Robbastard wrote:
    Rather than involve time travel, the most efficient thing IMO is to adjust the dates in the Istivin story arc.


    But how, as every Sterich NPC in game has mentioned that 15 years before there was a black dome over Istivin? And one player started whole game, just to get glimps in Lolth knowlegde ( he's motivation to go to Caves of Chaos ). Unmaking it would unmake whole game world logic... Confused

    Also, Istivin: City of Shadows states that Verbane, Chief Wizard of March earn his position by helping wih reclaiming the Sterich. In GDQ 1-7, in Istivin section, there is mentioned mage Lashton, Keoland's King Agent - are those two persons one and the same? If not, where is Verbane in time of GDQ 1-7?


    Oh, I see--I assumed you were trying to rectify conflicting canon with Greyhawk as a whole, rather than in the context of your campaign. For those purposes, just continue with your plan to have GDQ1-7 take place in 576 CY. :)

    As for your other question, Verbane and Lashton are separate characters. I don't have ICoS in front of me, be I would assume the "reclaiming of Sterich" you mention refers not to the overthrow of Lolth in GDQ1-7, but the post GH Wars reclamation that took place in 588 CY. See http://www.canonfire.com/cf/ghchrondex.php

    Also, if your current campaign is set in 591 CY, keep in mind that the Istivin adventures in Dungeon are set around 594-595, so that may further confuse things.
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